E65 | Side Hustle Biz While In PT School with Josh Jeffery

On Episode 65 of the PT Entrepreneur Podcast, I chat with one of the busiest PT students on the planet Josh Jeffery of Carolina Performance Training.

Josh is currently in his second year of PT school at the University of South Carolina which is hard enough, but on top of that he owns a gym, Carolina Performance Training, and does online programming for tons of athletes around the country.

How he does this I have no clue, but during this conversation, I get to the bottom of it and in the process learn how you can have a very successful side hustle while being in PT School.

Episode Transcription:

Danny: [00:00:00] What's going on guys, Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast, and today this is going to be an exciting kind of unique chat that we're going to have with somebody. I recently got to meet up at a buddy of mine, his, his practice, Vertex, PT, up in Columbia, South Carolina. Brandon Vaughn is instead of hopefully listen to this cause, this is your boy who's on the podcast with me. So Josh Jeffrey, who is a current physical therapy student at the University of South Carolina and who is also the owner and founder of Carolina performance training. So I thought this was a unique situation that Josh is in there. I wanted to have a conversation on the podcast.

So first of all, Josh, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me cause I know you got a lot of stuff.

Josh: [00:00:43] Oh man, it's fantastic to be on here. I appreciate you. Appreciate the opportunity, man.

Danny: [00:00:48] And Josh, fellow podcaster, by the way, it's, it's
Josh: [00:00:51] Better, Faster, Podcast brand. I started that, not too long ago.

Got some inspiration mainly from you and Joe. Man, we liked what you were doing, and we're hoping to continue the conversation.

Danny: [00:01:03] Well, I think it's a great idea. And you know, the two of you guys have such strong understandings of, both, rehab and, and performance said, I mean, I think it's, I think it's just such a good mixture and, and not only that, but I mean, there is a sub-niche in our, our profession that's been developing in this, you know, really for the last, I would say, probably ten years that I'm aware of.

And, you know, you guys feel right into that sort of performance base, niche. So here's, here's what I want to. Want to start with, so let's do this. Give me your origin story of how you ended up going from undergrad to your master's degree in exercise science where you worked, you know, in the straining conditioning field to then head into physical therapy school.

What, what, what was the transition like?

Josh: [00:01:45] Yeah, man, that's an exciting story. Probably not a very traditional path. I studied business in undergrad. I went to the University of Dayton, double majored in finance and economics. Worked for 13 months in a, as an analyst for a medical billing company, which kind of, I realized quickly that sitting in a cube just wasn't going to be for me.

It wasn't that I disliked the work, but, it, you know, I just, for me, it wasn't fulfilling. So I wanted to try to find something else. And I happened to, while in college I played baseball at Dayton and I loved the strength conditioning aspect that was arguably as much fun for me getting in the gym as it was going to practice every day.
So I thought to myself, that would be a field I want to look into. So yeah. Ah, began looking kind of online, looking at all these websites at college. Strength coach was like, okay, how did these guys get to where they were? Of course, a lot of them, not everyone, but a lot has studied exercise science.

Many of the head strength coaches had master's degrees. I was looking into, well. You know, everything I know is pretty informal. Me just looking, you know, looking things up for my benefit while I was training in college. So I thought I might want to pursue a little bit more of formal education in it.

So, I looked on a, you know, Princeton review and all those things, like, okay, well, I'd probably like to, if I can. Pursue a master's rather than go and get another bachelor's degree. So I looked in and university, South Carolina was consistently ranked, at, at the top of the graduate exercise science department.

So, I was lucky enough to apply and get accepted and started my master's program in the fall of 2013. So I moved from Ohio to. South Carolina in 2013 and began that program, and it was awesome, man. Not only was education excellent, but I had some great experiences. I was lucky enough to, spend some time in the strength conditioning park department at South Carolina, first on the Olympic side, working with baseball, softball, women's soccer, sand volleyball or the leading teams that I was able to work with, and then move over to the, I got a small experience.

Football side too. It gets, that's been a summer over with football, which is again a different experience than being on the Olympic team. It was awesome. I got to learn a lot about both of those. All the while, I was coaching at a CrossFit gym. So around the time I moved to South Carolina, I got started at Carolina CrossFit.

Shout out to Paul Beckwith for giving me a chance to start coaching there. It's still a, where, where we are right now is where I run Carolina performance training out of Carolina CrossFit. So I'm getting all these unique experiences. I'm getting to, you know, work with CrossFitters. You know, your general population.

I'm getting to work with STC caliber athletes, and I'm, I love it, but there was something that was missing to me. And that was—the ability to, you know, do what Brandon was doing. Brandon was in his Carolina CrossFit or ran in cash-based PT practice. And you know, if somebody had some issue that couldn't figure out, Brandon was my go-to, and I was, ha, I was going to Brandon asking these questions.

I was seeing what he was doing with people that maybe weren't that, you know, we're just coming in from other realms, runners, whatever it was that was coming to see him. I was like, man, and I want to be able to help people the entire way. Know, cause I was seeing his rehab was very similar to training, and I was thinking about all of this training and detox aren't so different.

So I debated for a little bit about going back to PT school and decided I wanted to pull the trigger on it and started PT school in the fall of 2016. So that's where we are right now is getting that, trying to grind through, the, I'm in the middle of my second year of PT school and trying to expand the business.

Which I guess that's another huge part of it. The Carolina performance training, we started of Carolina CrossFit. We saw a need for a lot of this individualization of programming. You know, you and I have talked about a lot of times, the, you know, these group CrossFit classes, while they're great, and I would argue that the coaches that we have at Carolina CrossFit are some of the best in the country.

I'd put them up against anybody. There's still a lot of individualization that needs to be done. You know, it's very hard in a 300 plus member gym to have a J one program that suits the needs of everybody. And we, we began experimenting with a more distinctive design, you know, all the way back in 2013 with our athletes at Carolina CrossFit, starting to, you know, not just our competitors, but people had all ranges of goals, experiences, or ability levels.

And we found that I, my opinion, the best route and the easiest and, and probably the most, Successful way, to help somebody reach their goals is through exceptional design. So we began Carolina performance training, kind of as an adjunct to the CrossFit, CrossFit side of things, and just expanded.

Again, me going back to PT school, I realized I'm not going to be able to be in the gym every day. So how can I continue to do the things I love if I can't be at the gym 24, seven, because, you know, class and study and does take up a lot of time. And that is when we moved into more of the remote side of things.

So we have our onsite athletes, that, you know, it's great. I love, I wish everybody were on site. Of course, that's, that's so much fun to work with people in person. But we've worked to expand the remote side of things because that allows me to continue to do. I love my schedule. So if I need to program at 10:00 PM on a Sunday, I can.

But I can't necessarily be at the gym at specified times all the time. So, that's kind of how Carolina's performance training started and my route into PT. And I'm just trying to, honestly, blend those two fields. I think that I've been lucky enough to see great people who are who can do that and have been doing that.

And I think they aren't so different. Oh,

Danny: [00:06:53] 100%. I mean, there's a lot of a gray area there, you know, good strength coaches. Good. Kind of performance-minded PTs. There's so much overlap, and there's. There's also, you know, it's essential in my opinion also to have that collaboration, if you, if you can, like, if you're around brilliant coaches to be able to, you know, share people back and forth based on where they're at on that, on that continuum.

But what's interesting to me is the fact that you've been able to set up this side business That you realize pretty quickly, I'm, I am going to have to remove myself from this kind of day today, in-person work, and make this more digital. So what was the process, like for you to do that?

Like what was challenging about that and what. What do you feel like it was essential for you to be able to do that?

Josh: [00:07:43] Yeah, I think the first step was figuring out the platform from which to work. So, it started with seeing some success with our in-person clients, our athletes, really more on the performance side of things, going off and doing great things, winning competitions, qualifying for regionals, those kinds of things.

So I started getting inquiries from people outside of our gym, like, Hey man, I'm looking for a coach. What can you do for me? And it started with, you know, email and then Google sheet. And going through these different methods of communication and getting program and videos, the number of emails and texts going back and forth, it was really, it was getting hard to manage a large number of people.

So the first step for me, one of the most difficult was figuring out, okay, what platform am I going to use to be able to make this a little bit more seamless? So that way that the coach and athlete relationship can continue to develop. And we landed on Fitbit. I tried a bunch of different things and me, and I am happy we found fit bot and it.

And that honestly has helped our business grow a ton because it's allowed. Then, it's cut the admin work down a lot. And that has allowed the other coaches and me a chance to take on more clients because we're spending less time on the other things that way, you know, that we're taking so much time before.

So that was a big part of it. And then also for me, man, it was surrounded myself by some excellent people. And we're lucky enough, and it's myself and three other coaches right now. And hopefully, yeah, to others kind of in the wings that are learning a little bit in, that are kind of more in that, you know, that growth stage before they start taking on their clients and having these clients or these coaches that can be very self-sustaining.

So I don't have to micromanage. I don't have to, you know, look at every single thing that they do because I know that they know what they're doing and they do such a great job. I think those were the two biggest things are kind of streamlining the process was, was significant. And then also I got lucky finding some great coaches, man.

Danny: [00:09:32] So let's talk a little bit about the kind of nuts and bolts of your programming business. So this is something that, this is probably going to sound very appealing to a lot of people that listen to this. Number one, they're either busy in the clinic, and they're working, you know. Primarily with people face to face.

So, you know, clinical base, job, whatever it might be, or they're in school and they're tied up in school-based hours. Right? And, and, the ability to leverage your time a little bit or to be able to do something remotely, is, I think, very appealing. So number one, you know, what's a price point typically at for programming when people work with you guys?
And. For, in your experience, if somebody is by themselves, let's say it was just you, instead of having other coaches, how many people do you feel like somebody can program for without it cutting into the quality of the other ones

Josh: [00:10:22]  both great questions, man. We've played around with, with both of them, trying to figure out what's the best for each of them as far as price point, we have a kind of different contract lengths. I don't want to lock somebody in for a long time if they don't feel comfortable with it. Cause I feel like if, you know, getting them in the door and getting them started, there'll be very satisfied with the product, and they'll end up being around for a long time. So we have three months, six months, and 12 months' contracts for people.

Should they, Once you know to commit to that more extended time frame because it does give them a little bit of a discount, that more extended timeframe. And it's, it's $225 a month and up. So our cheapest contracts to 25, but that, you know, for us it's more than just programming. That's a small part of the picture.

So our, our coaches help that person with not only their training program and editing our and sending back feedback on any videos they give that they send to us. Cause a lot of this with remote is a video, or this is in person. They're also helping that person with nutritional guidance. They're making sure that they're, they're fueling appropriately for the training that they're doing, which is very lovely.

That same coach that's giving you your programming is able to help you with the nutrition side of things. They're helping you with more of your lifestyle factors. I, I don't necessarily like the words life coach, or life coaching as much, but, cause I think, you know, it's, it's. I don't want to say it sounds corny, but that's really what's going on.

A lot of times. There are, you know, we're helping our clients with their sleep, all right. How, you know, ways to get more sleep or to get more quality sleep. We're helping them with stress management things throughout the day that they can do, you know, so that way we're, we're checking all the boxes.

So, you know, the program is a premium price, but we like to think that we provide a premium service and a pretty comprehensive service at that. So that way the training, which you and I both know is, is more. You know, maybe 15, 20% of the whole picture. We're making sure that we're helping in all the other areas as well.

So that hopefully answers a little bit more of your first question. That's, that would be, you know if somebody wants to commit for a longer timeframe and we do have some shorter time frame contracts as well. And then, if you're on your own, as far as how much you can handle, I think that is variable on a, based on a couple of things.

First, when you start out writing programs, at least when I first started, man, I took a while on each person. You know, second, you're not necessarily second-guessing, but you know, you're trying to make sure that you're, you're checking all your boxes, you're doing everything that you think is necessary for that person.

You're going back and forth. You know, it would take a while for each person, and then as you get going, you get more experienced. Then, the process does naturally gets a little bit quicker. And then also, if you can find it. Platforms that you, you like, it can make the process a lot faster in terms of workout editing, you know, via a fit bot or train heroic or anything like that.

It can be a pretty quick process in terms of the actual construction of the program. So I think that. It depends on the kind of your ability level, but it also depends on the type of client. So some of my clients that are, I guess, more general population, body composition clients, they just want to look good, feel good, move a little bit better, workout three times a week.

That person doesn't necessarily take as much time as some of my regionals athletes. I've got some regional athletes that do two to three sessions a day—depending on the time of year, depending on their schedule. You know, a couple of like own gyms, so they have weird hours they can do, like. Thirty minutes here, an hour here, 30 minutes there.

And they're. Also, you're prepping them for a particular event. So there, you know, their energy system preparation is a little bit different. So those can be comprehensive programs that take a lot longer. So I think it can vary. I know that's kind of a, I hate using the, it depends, but I think it does depend on, you know, your efficiency, but then also the type of client you're working with.

If you have a lot of high-level athletes, you're going to be able to handle as much, much volume. It just takes, it takes longer for those people. But if you have a lot of more general population, body comp type clients, then you can, you can start moving through those pretty quickly. And they, it just depends on how much time you want to devote to it.

Danny: [00:14:09] So let's say you were a student listening to this. You are actually, let's say you are a student that didn't have a programming business. Listen to this. And they thought to themselves, well, that sounds awesome. I should try to do this. I understand. You know, I've got a background is for any conditioning.

Where does somebody go to find clients? Like what, what have you found your most success with outside of people in the gym that you're currently at, but the digital kind of space, the digital, area where you're finding a new customers, what have you seen the most success with, if you had to recommend Hey to find your first client?

Josh: [00:14:42] That's a good question because I would say that it is an area that I am constantly trying to improve. I do not do the best job in kind of the digital; yeah. Marketspace. So I'm. One of my clients is, that's what she does for a living. I'm in talks with her about hiring her to do some of that for me.

To tell you the truth, we, we grew pretty organically starting in the gym and people moving from kind of the general, the group fitness to more the individual side. Then it, a lot of it was just posting client success on social media and the people reaching out after that, they see one of our athletes, you know, you know, qualifying for, you know, a regional or one of them winning this competition, or one of them Performing, you know, doing this lift or, you know, if it's a body composition client, you know, seeing their, their transformation between like a, for before and after. We've just tried to highlight our, our clients and highlight our athlete's success. So that's how we. Started growing. If you, you know, I'm trying to think about if you were coming from having, don't have an I have a lot of a background in this.

My first suggestion would just be to find, you know, a way to kind of immerse yourself in it. So that means taking on a client or to a family member or something for free to try to; I hate to say that if you're good at something, you don't want necessarily to do it for free but to get. A few people under your belt and to have, you know, you know, testimonials are great.

Having people, you know, as kind of evidence of your work that might be a place where to start. But, our, our origins are a little different than that, so it's hard for me to say what would be the best route to go.

Danny: [00:16:15] It seems like social media would be a perfect platform to start trying to build some of these, these clients up.

And, and it also sounds like if it's all of this is the same and the regional athlete is paying you the same as the person that's working out three days a week, just wants to lose a little bit of weight, and the one is significantly less work. It seems like that's the person that. You should be trying to speak to remotely, you know, if that's, if that's the lowest amount of work for the most amount of revenue that you generate, assuming obviously like you, you enjoy working with that person, but, Where, where have you found more people like that? Has it been more referrals locally from the gym, or are they serious and you out via some of the stuff you guys do?

Josh: [00:16:58]  Those tend to be more of our local clients are remote. Athletes seem to be more of the athletic population. They're the ones that seem to be seeking out, you know, you know somebody for a very, very specific goal.

They're also usually a little bit more self-sustaining at that point, meaning that they can handle that remote: coach, client relationship. A lot of our more, our general body composition clients are more in house. They're ones that, we've either, you know, come through the CrossFit ranks that might be one way or, they, I, I, you know, see some different things that we've posted cause we do try to vary our postings to, to kind of appeal to everybody.

But, you know, just like everybody else, they have social media. And I think that year is a high point. The social media aspect is enormous. So I would say that most of ours. In-person clients, are, are, are more local, but army, army, I'm sorry, our body composition clients are more local. And like you said, I think it comes down to what do you want to work with?

I love working with both, but for me, particularly, I like the higher level athlete because that for me allows me to be as creative as possible. We have, the beautiful thing is on our staff, our, our other coaches, they have differing opinions. They have one person that they like. I have one coach that loves working with people who just are starting.

I have one that likes, you know, it was more on the body composition. Rob, I have another one that wants more of the sport performance side, which is another aspect that we're, we're diving into mainly with him as the head of it. More the sport performance side of things. So, For us. I think, yeah, you have to figure out who you want to work with.

I think to tailor your content to that person. And then get you, get your name out there. I've done some things in the, in locally where we go, you know, we have, you know, go to farmer's market, go set up somewhere, go, you know, go to your local, whole foods, set up and talk to anybody that will come up to you about, about some nutrition things.

You know, just kind of getting yourself out there. It's probably the best way to get started.

Danny: [00:18:46] How is the process been for you with still working, you know, a decent amount with this business and handling, you know, the rigors of trying to get your doctoral degree. 

 

Josh: [00:18:57] I can't, I'm not going to lie and say it's been easy man, or that I have it all figured out. I think I'm always tinkering with my schedule and how to do things and how to prioritize what and when.

To tell you the truth, my professors probably wouldn't want to hear this, but a lot of times, PT school isn't the number one priority. I think my, you know, obviously my fiance is probably number one there. And then after that, it's my, my business and my clients because, you know, for me, they're paying me a premium for a premium service.

I need to make sure that that is there. And then also have these other coaches that rely on me doing my job. So for me, that, that tends to take priority. If it's, you know, midnight and I need to write three or four programs before I can go to bed. No. Then I'm not going to sleep as much that night. Or if I need to study for an exam, but somebody needs a program, well, I got to get that program out, and then I'll start studying and then that might carry.

Maybe that impacts a little bit of my sleep or training schedule. So to me, it's kind of just making sure that number one, you know, I've got to make sure that my clients had coaches are taken care of. And then I kind of. Prioritize PT school after that. I've been very fortunate to have some amazing professors that do such a great job that, you know, they, they set, they set us up for success.

So I just have to make sure that I take care of my people first. And then the PT school kind of comes after that.

Danny: [00:20:19] So how much one on one time are you, are you spending with these clients you have? So it seems like the bottleneck sounds like it's programming. But it also looks like potentially it's sort of the interaction between them. So are you guys doing, you know, some sort of. A video call, or is it? Is it all via email?

Like what's the, what's the actual kind of in-person interaction? I guess a good way to put it, a one on one interaction that you have with you. 

Josh: [00:20:42] So these are, no matter if somebody is remote or in-person every month. We have a, either a video call, video call, or sit, sit down meeting. So I make sure that we get face to face at least once a month, just to chat, see how things are going.

That's the time where we address a lot of our nutrition stuff as well is during, during that call. No, of reevaluating goals, things like that. How have things been going? Where do you see, you know, where do you want this to keep going? So I have at least that one-on-one every single month.

My in-person clients, I see a little bit more often than that. I see them, you know, if not daily, at least a few times a week, depending on when they come in to train and when I'm in the gym. But, our interaction, other than the. Face to face time that is dedicated to every client. Most of it is electronic.

Fitbit has an instant messaging feature. It goes back and forth. You can comment back and forth on different workouts. You can, you know, attach videos pretty seamlessly, and we can write feedback on the video again and forth. so most of our interaction is, is electronic. All my clients have my cell number, and I'm continually getting texts every day about different things, especially this time of year, the open man, this is the most.

A stressful time for me right now, since most of my athletes are, are going through this process, I'm inundated with texts and calls every day. But you know, it's one of those things is, are they always can. They can T there's kind of a, I want to say it's an unwritten rule or anything like that, but it seems like, you know, general communication about the programming happens electronically and then anything a little bit more pressing, they just text or call me to get ahold of me right away. So, hey, I'm not feeling too high today. I'm going to have to take today off. They, I might get a text or a call about that, but if it's something like, Hey, today's training went well, found myself, yo, I'm feeling great on this and not so great on this. You know, that's just commenting back and forth on, on an individual workout.

So yeah, we do have that face to face time. I don't want to miss out on that. Especially with our remote clients, I want them to know that I'm not just, you know, they're not just talking to, you know, a computer. I want them to know that. There's somebody there, a person that cares about them and their fitness journey.

And so I make sure we make sure to have that connection. But you know, most of our clients or interaction does happen electronically. And I talk to my clients a lot and a lot of them every single day, some of my long term clients that are self-sustaining. It's not every day. It doesn't, it just cause it doesn't need to be, but they've got access to me pretty much all the time.

Danny: [00:23:02] So, I mean, it sounds like for you, do you have a natural background and kind of. Drive towards this, right. And maybe somebody that's listening to this has a practice, and they could look at adding this as an additional revenue stream or deferrals a different service option for their current practice. But, what if they just feel like their skill set in programming, in particular, is not quite as good as they would like it to be?

At what, what resources would you recommend, or what groups that maybe they could go and do consent, continued education work with?

Josh: [00:23:31] Would you recommend them to check now, that's a great question. If you're already, you know, practicing and, and have kind of a good background in movement, I would focus more on courses that are going to, going to help you more from the programming side.

So something like, I love the OPEX courses, the coaching certification program. I've gone through all of those. That has elements of programming, elements of assessment. But you know, if you're practicing, your, your movement skills are probably, more advanced in terms of what they're going over. But you get some assessment from a movement standpoint.

They help you learn how to assess, you know, you know, strength and energy system, you know, testing. So that way, you can determine what someone's priorities are. They move into some programming, so that way, you can learn how to take what you've developed from this testing or assessment phase to be able to drive the program.

They, you know, they do cover nutrition as well as a lot of them, the life coaching aspects. So the OPEC certification program is fantastic. It's comprehensive. It also is, you know, a little bit more expensive, but I, I found it to be worth it. I'm—a big fan of the national strength conditioning association and the CSCs work.

I think you know, honestly, for me, I bought that textbook back in the day and just read it from page one to the end over, you know, you know, a month or two just sitting down, reading a little bit each every day. I think that does a great job of starting to outline, you know, the initial and basic concepts of, of say, periodization or, you know, how to chart training different energy systems.

It also has a nice, You know, background in the bioenergetic side of things. So if you feel like you need to brush up on that kind of thing, I think that course, and then, you know, being a member and getting that content that they keep putting out is great too. I guess if you're going to work with anybody who does weightlifting.

I would look into one or both of the following two courses. The USA w course does have a little bit of a programming aspect to it. It's more first to learn the list. The clinical athlete weightlifting course was great, as well. So I think, you know, it might be a little bit of, you got to figure out the population you want to work with and let that drive you a little bit.

And then if you think you need help or want more information on the energy system side of things, which seems to be the area where I get the most questions. I love anything that Joel Jamieson puts out. He has, I've read his book, which I think is excellent. He also has a course, I haven't taken the course yet, but I would probably most likely will, that that book is ultimate MMA conditioning, but it doesn't just apply to fighters.

It applies universally. And then he has a certified conditioning coach course. So if you're looking into energy system work, I would probably go that route.

Danny: [00:26:03] Joe's smart dude, man. I remember we talked to him on the Doc and Jock podcast. I was very, I was very impressed with, you know, what he had to say, and just the knowledge level is very apparent. So yeah, definitely his stuff. His staff is excellent. What's your goal with this company, man? I mean, I'm pretty soon you're going to graduate.

Josh: [00:26:21] You're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel just a little bit.

Danny: [00:26:26]  It's really, it's soon. And, so you'll graduate and then you're going to want to, you know, use your skillset, as well from what you learned in school. So what do you see the evolution of? Carolina performance training, or is it something else?

Josh: [00:26:40] I love the coaching and training side. And I am growing to love this PT side. And, as selfish as it's may sound, I want to be able to do both. And I feel like that's a possibility. So my long term goal here is to have a, you know, a facility that can handle all of it, that has a PT side—still debating whether there'll be a cash-based side or, or maybe a hybrid type clinic. I liked the way Brandon and Jim do things at a, at Vertex PT. I think that's a, and I do like that model. I was lucky enough to spend time there on rotation. So either a cash-based or maybe a hybrid type PT model on one side and then a fitness facility on the other side that employs coaches.

And then also, you know, employing PTs on the other side to where I get to do a little bit of both. Maybe I'm treating, you know, you know, 20 hours of the week is spent more treating, you know, 15 to 20 hours operating. And then also I'm getting to coach the rest of my time on the opposite side and programming too.

So my, my ideal situation is to kind of have a, a little bit of it all. So, that would be the plan going forward. Yeah. I don't know. I know we talked a bit about this on whether to open that clinic right after graduation. Is, is the right move or not? But, I got a year and a half to kind of figure that part out.

Danny: [00:27:53] Well. I mean, well, I think it depends on, you know, are you rolling right into people that know who you are and want to work with you from day one? In your case? Potentially. Maybe that's, that's it. If it's where you're currently at, right? If you already have athletes that would want to work with you.

So it's sort of a unique situation, you know? I guess; the big question is, you know, a lot of, a lot of students are. You know, student loans are, are, are a big, big deal. Like it's, it's expensive to go back to school. So number one, do you feel like it's, it's worth it from what you're learning and, and, for what you're going to be able to do.

And then also, too, how has your company that you currently have been able to offset some of that?

Josh: [00:28:35] the million-dollar question. It seems like right now, if you look at all this, these student forums and things like that where they're, they're talking about, okay, is the debt to income ratio worth it for PT?

And tell you the truth. I love it. I'm thrilled that I decided to make the jump to go back to school. And yes, having the business has helped offset the cost. You know, that's so unfortunate that, in that regard. But even if the company wasn't able to offset it as much as it has, I think for me, the.

The one I'm obtaining knowledge-wise and experience-wise. I really wouldn't trade it for anything. I'll, I will love my time with the University of South Carolina and me, and if you're a prospective student looking for a school, I would highly recommend looking into USC. But I think I can understand why people are going that route.

These, you know, declining reimbursement, raise Pete, you know, entry, PT level salaries, you know, the more info you see on it. It just, it's kind of depressing, honestly, when you know, how much money it costs to get to obtain that degree. So for me, I'm, I, that's one reason I want to set up the clinic that I, or the.

The situation that I want to work in longterm. And that is either new, one of those like cash brace or hybrid models where it's one on one, and I'm getting provide the best care possible. And if that, you know, you know, maybe that is not the. The best financial decision and you can make a lot more money if you want to run a mill.

But I just couldn't do that or couldn't work in one of those situations. So for me, having the fitness side will, will hopefully allow me to have that type of clinic. So, yes, on both accounts, we have the business for being able to do this as healthy and helpful from a cost perspective of PT school.

But, even though PT school's expensive, man, I'm, I'm glad that I made the jump to go ahead and do it.

Danny: [00:30:14] Well, I tell you, I, I S I see some of that stuff too with students and, you know, it's, I see it as there's so much opportunity. Currently, there's a, and there's a lot of change that's occurring. There's a lot of unknown. But, Those are the times where people that are willing to take a chance on themselves can springboard themselves into, you know, significant, significant positions, not just in terms of building a business, but also, you know, having a substantial impact on the profession.

And I honestly believe that this. Sort of hybrid approach in terms of understanding both how to use your hands and, and, and more of like the rehabilitation, I guess a portion of it, getting people out of pain, but then getting those people moving well and also understanding how to talk to them about.

Dealing with stress, coping with, management of sleep. You know, you have a baby, a new baby in the house. Like, look, there are sleep issues that are going to occur. It's unavoidable, you know, how do you deal with those things? And how do you deal with what you're putting your body and how are you, how do you set those things up correctly?

Like that skill set is scarce. And anytime you can slap. No doctor on the front of your name. It gives you instant credibility compared to somebody that doesn't have that. Right. It's, it's, it's almost an unfair advantage. So, I mean, I think if you're interested in just going to school and working for the VA hospital or w whatever, I mean, that's nothing against VA hospital, but something like, you know, like a stable, like a job like that.

I don't know if I would recommend somebody to do it, but if, if you are interested in. Doing something on your own and having this kind of really cool autonomy. I mean, I just think it's such a relaxed, unique time for us to, to be, you know, physical therapists, but also in this, this performance kind of role that's just developing more and more and more.

I think you, and you're positioning yourself to be, in a perfect spot and, you know, potentially a leader in our field going forward

Josh: [00:32:03] with your project. I don't want to sound like I, it. That I don't appreciate people that do have those other types of those jobs where they are, you know, like you say that the VA, for example, or anything like that.

I think that's needed, in terms of some of those positions are, are required, but for me, it's just not what I want. So I'm in my long time, I kind of already have in my mind what my practice or how, you know, how I am practicing looks. And so for me, I'm trying just to do things now to be able to set myself up for that.

So that way, if I want to start a clinic and I don't necessarily have. The influx of patients that I would like as you're starting a clinic, you know, as it gets rolling, I kind of have this other, you know, maybe I guess a side gig, but this other business that's, that allows me to, be able to take the time to set that up.

So, I think if people. If people want to move into that model, I think the first thing I would do, immerse yourself in the fitness side of things, man. Go. Even if you don't like CrossFit, join a CrossFit gym. Just cause you to get to see hundreds of people move and watch and learn and see if you can find a way to coach a little bit.

You know, get yourself started in there. It's going to make you a better clinician, but you might find that it allows you to pursue maybe these other things that you, you know, you might not think you'd be able to.

Danny: [00:33:20] man, that's such good advice. I agree. I think if you if, you can manage a group of 20 people with verbal cueing almost exclusively, it's, you can do pretty damn well one-on-one. He gets just so much. So much easier. Right. I mean, I think that's such good advice, and I recommend that students coach or train in a while they're in school or in preparation to go into school because, you know, my experience coaching and a lot of this like group-based work for me started in the military when we're out on, you know, at PT. There's like 40 people that, many of them literally are motor morons and they just don't move very well, you know?

And, you can't go over and spot correct everybody. So you have to kind of. Learn how to triage and then verbally on the spot how to fix things and get simplified with what you say for people to make changes. And that's hard to do. I think that's something that has to be learned, and it doesn't, you don't learn it quickly, but if you can distill that stuff down, your, your skillset as a clinician will improve dramatically.

So man, great advice. , this has been one of my favorite, kind of calmer, one of my favorite conversations I've had on this podcast, and I think it's such a unique—opportunity for our profession. And even PT students are listening to this, like, let me do the numbers. You know, if you program for four people while you're in school and it's 250 bucks a month, you know, you'll make $1,000 a month while you're still in school.

And now that may not. Offset school, but man, that'll sure as hell. Help was something that you can do without having to necessarily be their one-on-one, which is a pretty unique way of working with people. So if people are interested in learning more about your practice or

Danny: [00:35:32] Cool. This has been great. Josh. Thanks so much for your time. Good luck with the rest of the school. Don't worry, man, like a, if you finish first in the class or last year in class
because you got other shit on, man, it's been a, it's been a pleasure.

Josh: [00:35:40] Cool, brother. Thanks so much.