E856 | What We Learned From 200 Cash-Based PTs With Yves Gege

Oct 09, 2025

cash based physical therapy, danny matta, physical therapy biz, ptbiz, cash based, physical therapy, how to start a physical therapy clinic, hybrid physical therapy, physical therapy website

Cash PT Trends 2025: What We Learned in Dallas + The New Industry Report

In this episode, Doc Danny Matta and Yves Gege break down lessons from PT Biz’s 14th live event in Dallas and share insights from their brand-new Cash PT Industry Report. They cover what’s working now for cash-based clinics, the rise of continuity and small-group training, and how the job market is shifting as solo owners look to join larger cash clinics.

Why This Matters

Cash PT is no longer a fringe idea—it’s a proven, growing model. Whether you’re running pure cash, hybrid, or exploring out-of-network options, the fundamentals stay the same: leads, lifetime value, hiring, and leadership. This episode highlights where the profession is heading, and how to build a practice that thrives over the next decade.

Key Takeaways

From startups to scale: Events now draw ~200 business owners focused on growth, not just survival.
Models vary, principles don’t: Cash-only, hybrid, and Medicare-inclusive setups all work if you master business fundamentals.
Continuity is climbing: 20–40%+ of revenue now comes from recurring wellness and performance visits, stabilizing businesses.
Small-group training = untapped gold: Only about 25% of clinics offer it, but those that do see huge retention and lifetime value.
Talent shift: Many solo owners are seeking roles inside bigger clinics for culture, mentorship, and intrapreneurship opportunities.
Pay reality check: Salaries tie directly to provider-generated revenue. Entitlement doesn’t equal added value.
Macro shift: Rising deductibles and demand for wellness services are driving every clinic—insurance or not—to add self-pay options.

Live Event Highlights

Owners now talk more about hiring, systems, profitability, and scaling than just getting started.
Regional and payer differences mean one-size-fits-all doesn’t exist—your market dictates whether you’re cash-only or hybrid.
The most valuable lessons often come from conversations between members, not the formal presentations.

The Industry Report

Continuity: Strong correlation between recurring visits and profitability.
Small-Group Training: High stick rate, strong community effect, and underused by most clinics.
Diversified Offers: Programs around performance, strength, and longevity increase lifetime value and reduce churn.

Why Small Groups Work

They provide strength, mobility, accountability, and community.
Cost is comparable to weekly PT or personal training, but with more retention.
Clinicians like the variety—fewer notes, more energy, and strong outcomes.

Career Pathways

Go all in: Build and scale your own clinic.
Or join a winner: High-performing cash clinics are actively hiring. The best candidates? Those who’ve already tried going solo.
Value first, then ask: Opportunities flow from demonstrated impact—not tenure or entitlement.

Pro Tips This Month

Add a continuity option (monthly strength/mobility or return-to-sport).
Pilot a small group (4–8 clients, 8 weeks, 2x/week).
Map your model: cash, hybrid, or out-of-network depending on your market.
Benchmark your prices, packages, and continuity % against the industry report.

Quotes Worth Remembering

“There isn’t one right model—principles win. Leads in, lifetime value up, recruit well, lead well.”

“Continuity compacts the snowball. When 30–40% of your visits are recurring, everything gets easier.”

“If you want stability without owning every problem, be an intrapreneur—create value, then opportunities chase you.”

Next Steps

Launch a pilot small group and track retention.
Create two simple continuity offers.
Benchmark your model against national data and make one improvement this month.

Programs Mentioned

Clinical Rainmaker: Systems to get you full-time in your clinic.
Mastermind: Scale space, team, and operations.
PT Biz 5-Day Challenge (Free): Clarify expenses, visit targets, pricing, and create a one-page plan.

Resources

✦ About the Hosts: Danny Matta (cash-practice founder, active-duty PT, and coach) and Yves Gege (cash-practice owner and systems strategist) lead PT Biz, helping over 1,000 clinicians build, grow, and scale practices.

Do you enjoy the podcast? If so, leave us a 5-star review on iTunes and tell a friend to do the same!

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, what's going on? Danny here with the PT l nor podcast and back with [00:00:05] Yves Gege, my business partner. And we're talking about the live event that we just, [00:00:10] uh, put on out in Dallas as well as something really cool that we wanted to share. That's going to be a [00:00:15] resource available for people to, um, you know, kind of see.

The industry, cash [00:00:20] industry as a whole and kind of things that we're seeing that we, um, gathered a bunch of data from our community [00:00:25] for that is gonna really shed some light on kinda what's going on on the financial side and some of the trends that we're [00:00:30] seeing. Hopefully for you, it gives you a better idea of what you should be working towards as well.

And we'll talk about [00:00:35] that a little bit, uh, as well. So, um, Eve, this was what our [00:00:40] 15th event, I

Yves: think. 14th event. 14th event. [00:00:45] Yep.

Danny: That's a lot of events. Number one. Uh, this [00:00:50] one, this one was great though. I thought this was a, just a really fun event. Cool location. [00:00:55] Um, you know, guest presenter was great. I don't know.

I, this was definitely up there [00:01:00] for me. I, I thought it was one of my, one of my favorite ones that we've done so far. How about you?

Yves: Yeah, I think [00:01:05] so. Um, I feel like the change that I saw at this event is. [00:01:10] I feel like in the beginning we had, you know, as we grew [00:01:15] 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, even a hundred people who were physical therapists [00:01:20] just trying to figure out business, and now I feel like we have, you know.

[00:01:25] Close to 200 people who are business owners and really trying to change a [00:01:30] trajectory. Like I just had more, I feel like, complex conversations and [00:01:35] more just like deep dive into business, where before it was just like, we're just trying to figure things out. And I [00:01:40] feel like now we're not trying to figure things out anymore.

We're really trying to scale, really trying to like, take [00:01:45] things to the next level. And uh, I just felt that shift, you know, in the conversations I had with a [00:01:50] lot of our members.

Danny: Yeah, people are becoming more complex. There's no doubt about that. I mean, I think it's one of those [00:01:55] things where it's interesting to have conversations with people [00:02:00] that we've known for years and, you know, even a couple years ago, [00:02:05] it's kinda like, eh, I don't know.

Like they, they, I'm not [00:02:10] sure if they really want to go for it. And it, and everybody's goals are different. Based on [00:02:15] where they're at in their, sort of, in their life and the opportunities that they have, the time, [00:02:20] lots of things. And I mean, I saw a handful of people that a couple years ago was kinda [00:02:25] like, uh, I don't know, maybe I just want to run like a bigger lifestyle business to now [00:02:30] they're like.

Really interested in scaling and they have more [00:02:35] complexity in terms of like, just, just understanding of how to run a business. Um, they [00:02:40] are evolving in an interesting way. I think it's gonna be really interesting to [00:02:45] see over the next really like, you know, five to 10 years how big [00:02:50] some of these cash-based clinics can actually get.

Um, you know, and maybe some of them end up [00:02:55] going. Hybrid route in certain areas. Some of them, maybe it's just purely cash, maybe some of [00:03:00] it's out of network. Um, some of them may look more like gyms. I mean, it's just, what's interesting [00:03:05] is there's so many different variations that people can do, and I had conversations with people with [00:03:10] like, at least eight different sort of structures for what they were [00:03:15] trying to do in terms of like different offers and, and what was working in their area.

[00:03:20] So, you know, I, I don't know. I took away, you know, I came away [00:03:25] thinking. There's not like one right way to do it. There's general principles that we think are correct, but [00:03:30] there's so many different ways to make it work based on the type of business model you wanna run. I [00:03:35] wouldn't say there's like one that seems to be the best out of all of 'em.

There's, there's lots of different ways to do it. [00:03:40]

Yves: Yeah, I, I totally agree. I mean, in the beginning I feel like we, [00:03:45] uh. Stamped our flag on cash only. You know, [00:03:50] uh, screw the insurance world. This is all there is. You want freedom, do this. And [00:03:55] now, um, just like you said, there are a lot of different op options.

You know, it's like [00:04:00] in-person work, remote work, hybrid between those two. Insurance with cash on the [00:04:05] side side, you know, a blending of cash and insurance where you're kind of like, there's, yeah, there are just a [00:04:10] lot of different ways to, um, cut the cake now and. I [00:04:15] think you just said it. Well, it's like business principles, right?

Like we've now been kind of on the business side, less on the [00:04:20] clinical side for a long time. And um, we know it's just like, how do you get [00:04:25] more leads in the door? You know what I mean? How do you make them, uh, learn [00:04:30] lifetime value increase and how do you recruit people and how do you lead your team and like, cool [00:04:35] there.

Those things don't change across any of the business models and like all these things [00:04:40] can work if done well. And that's probably the, the biggest challenge and and [00:04:45] ways we continue to improve is just like continue to improve the model too. Right. Which I'm sure we'll talk about, but like, [00:04:50] you know, there's always a way to make it, uh.

Uh, better and constantly evolving. I [00:04:55] think that's where we're at now. We're now like tweaking things. We're no longer like building the model. We're [00:05:00] now tweaking them to make it better, to make it more profitable, to provide even more time freedom to [00:05:05] get to that point where you can autopilot your practice, you know, and [00:05:10] see five to 10 patients a week and make six figures or more.

Like that path is pretty much set, [00:05:15] which is really cool.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how many people we were [00:05:20] sitting down with that were actively already doing that, but it was, it's a lot.

Yves: Mm-hmm. Um,

Danny: you know, once you get to [00:05:25] a certain stage, and it really, it really seems like if it's purely [00:05:30] cash, uh, cash only, and they have, you know, [00:05:35] slightly better margins, um, we can talk about profitability and things that we were seeing [00:05:40] as well.

That's in this industry report. Once they get to about 50,000 a month in, [00:05:45] in a cash based business, they kind of have a couple [00:05:50] options. They can continue to really scale to a hundred, [00:05:55] 150, 200,000 a month if that's the direction they want to go and, and really, you know, make that, [00:06:00] um, even, you can even make one clinic that size, right, like one good size [00:06:05] clinic could definitely be.

One and a half to two and a half million dollars a year in revenue. [00:06:10] And if it's mostly, you know, cash services, we'll see that profitability be be like really [00:06:15] high. The other side that we're starting to see is people that want, you know, really to increase volume [00:06:20] rapidly, so they're taking lower revenue for [00:06:25] increased volume.

And this is, I mean, this is how. It [00:06:30] starts with insurance clinics anyway, right? Like they start to look at, well, where can we do that? And we work, A lot of insurance clinics are trying [00:06:35] to add cash services without necessarily having to add a massive amount of volume. It's interesting to see in, uh, [00:06:40] cash based clinics go the other direction because.

Mu I think it's much better to start as a [00:06:45] cash based clinic and then add a little bit of insurance to, you know, in your area that might make sense. Or [00:06:50] maybe you want to do an out, out of network approach, or maybe you really wanna work with a Medicare population and that [00:06:55] makes sense for you to increase your volume.

You can still keep your, your relative average [00:07:00] revenue per provider in a decent spot, but it'll, if, if you, if you can do that with. [00:07:05] Two more providers versus, you know, not having the volume, then you're kind of making it up for it [00:07:10] in volume versus sheer, just sort of like profitability per visit. Um, so you [00:07:15] kinda have to ask yourself what game you're trying to play, what, and also what makes sense in your area, right?

Like, I don't live in a high [00:07:20] Medicare population area. I don't live in a heavy TRICARE population area. I [00:07:25] don't, I don't live in an area where there's private insurances from massive organizations, you know, that are [00:07:30] paying. 200 plus a visit in network, um, you know, for physical [00:07:35] therapy. If I did, that'd be a different story in terms of how we would've structured our, our [00:07:40] clinics, right?

So it is interesting to see everybody's area is like slightly different. Um, you know, each [00:07:45] state can be dramatically different as far as what benefits, you know, companies are providing and [00:07:50] things of that nature. But regardless, it is interesting to see everybody come together and kind of [00:07:55] openly share how that's working.

Somebody came up to me at the event. And they were like, this is crazy, [00:08:00] man. Like I just had a conversation with somebody who's, you know, way ahead of me in the same [00:08:05] state and they were just giving me the exact playbook of what I need to do and how [00:08:10] they were able to do what they did. And it was just like, just that one conversation was worth coming [00:08:15] to the, the event for that whole two days.

You know? And you just kind of don't know who you're gonna have a [00:08:20] conversation with. It's usually not one of us. It's usually somebody else, you know, that they didn't actually even know was gonna be there. [00:08:25]

Yves: Yeah, a hundred percent. We say it every year, but it is the conversations [00:08:30] that happen around the content and around the structured events that people always seem to [00:08:35] like, uh, the most, you know?

And um, it's that little nugget. Yeah. [00:08:40] It's just like. Wait a minute, like, where'd you find your physical therapist at? Well, I did X, Y, and [00:08:45] Z. Like, oh man, why didn't I do that? Or, you know, man, you ran that workshop really, really well. Like, what did you [00:08:50] do? You know, and that's why these member presentations are such a hit, right?

Yeah. Like we basically just let our [00:08:55] members who do something really, really well share their story. They love to share their story, and [00:09:00] people get so much out of it because, you know, it's. [00:09:05] Happening in real life, you know what I mean? And they're just gonna take something from it. And uh, yeah, I [00:09:10] think that's awesome.

That's the best part of the group is really that everyone seems to be very open-handed, [00:09:15] even if you're in the same state, even if you're in the same city. A lot of these people, you know, get together, which I [00:09:20] think is awesome. 'cause ultimately what we're trying to do is, you know. Help as many people as possible and, and, you [00:09:25] know, change the way, uh, you know, give more options to clinicians out [00:09:30] there, you know, and really, and I think we've done that.

It's, you know, it's a funny part. I say that as if like, oh, we're [00:09:35] trying to do that at this point. It's done. Right. We're seeing that like, uh, you know, we are no [00:09:40] longer this fringe thing. People are like. Hey, cash is a thing. So, um, now we [00:09:45] just gotta continue, I guess, just to grow it, you know, and, and maybe one day be as a big behemoth as, [00:09:50] um, the insurance world is, or, um, get to the point where [00:09:55] more clinicians are doing it.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if, [00:10:00] I wonder if it'll be as big as an insurance sort of, uh, [00:10:05] based model is, I mean, you're talking about. What is that, like $38 billion or something? Like, it's [00:10:10] huge. And, and, um, you know, but I we're obviously like making a [00:10:15] serious dent in that every single year, uh, we see it every year we see more clinics like this opening up [00:10:20] and every, every clinic, whether they like it or not, they're adding some variation of self-paced service.

They, [00:10:25] they, they have to, and they have to understand how to have conversations with people around these deductibles that are increasing. We're [00:10:30] seeing, we've been seeing it happen for a long time. Um, you know, so yeah, I don't, I don't know. [00:10:35] If that will happen so much. But I will say one thing that I had a surprising number of [00:10:40] conversations about was, um, clinicians who [00:10:45] had been reached out to by another cash-based clinician who had [00:10:50] kind of started their own thing.

That that was just do like literally solo provider [00:10:55] that was reaching out to a more established cash based clinic to, [00:11:00] to inquire about working at that clinic and. [00:11:05] It was, it wasn't like one person I talked to about this, you know? Right. [00:11:10] Literally, that came up to me. Now, I can't talk to 200 people, you know, in the, in, [00:11:15] in the two days that were there.

But I talked to a lot of people and I would say. [00:11:20] I probably had at least 10 people bring that up that I talked to in, in, [00:11:25] uh, small groups whenever we were moving around doing subject matter expert, um, questions. [00:11:30] In a group of about 20, I had people raise their hand and, and in that group of 20, there was about four people that raised their hand.[00:11:35]

When I asked, has anybody had been reached out to by a clinician who started their own thing as a solo provider, but it's now [00:11:40] looking to work for a more established cash-based clinic. So. It's, [00:11:45] it's a big actual like, you know, percentage overall of the people that are in there. And what's interesting is, you know, we've had a [00:11:50] couple coaches that have now done this and brought people on.

Um, you know, [00:11:55] by and large it seems to work really well. And what I'm seeing and what I think we're gonna continue to see is. [00:12:00] There's some people that just don't wanna work for other people. Like, like they, they just don't, they just don't [00:12:05] wanna work for a high, high volume clinic. And there's some people that really want to be a business owner, you know what I'm saying?

Like [00:12:10] some people don't want to run a business, they just don't want to work for certain clinics. And then there's some [00:12:15] people that like. They just my, I think our guest presenter said this really well. He goes, the only reason to [00:12:20] be an entrepreneur is that you're unemployable. Right? If you're not unemployable, it's not worth the [00:12:25] pain.

You know? He is like, you don't have any other choice. I agree with that. I think that he said that Well, [00:12:30] so you know, if you're just like. I don't really wanna work for somebody else, that's probably not enough motivation to actually [00:12:35] get you to where you want to go 'cause this shit is really hard. Um, so they kinda get to a certain point, they get to [00:12:40] where their schedule's like kind of busy, but they're like, damn, this is hard.

I'm isolated. And they make a decision [00:12:45] of whether they wanna lean into that and really, you know, push to where they're gonna be, uh, able to [00:12:50] grow past themself. Really double down on becoming a great business owner, or they're [00:12:55] looking for a place where they can work that has a culture that they want that allows some, you know, [00:13:00] entrepreneurial opportunities, um, time, flexibility, you know, and, and, and they [00:13:05] miss being in a, in an environment with other clinicians and in a culture where.

Where, you know, [00:13:10] it's, uh, it's, it's improving everybody around them and not necessarily just isolated by [00:13:15] themself. I, I think you're gonna see more and more and more of that. And if you're listening to this and that's you and you're sitting in your [00:13:20] office thinking, you're wondering is, is Jan talking to me?

Yeah. I'm very much talking to you. [00:13:25] Because if, if you're in that, in that stage, that's the stage. Gonna have to decide whether. [00:13:30] I'm absolutely gonna make this work. Or it would be nice if this worked out. And there's [00:13:35] a big difference in the mindset of that because you borderline have to be, [00:13:40] I don't know, like obsessive over it actually turning out the way that you want.

Right? And that you [00:13:45] would never, ever, like I would never go work for somebody else's clinic. There's no chance in the [00:13:50] world that would've happened. Just impossible. Um, once I got started, before I got started, I [00:13:55] definitely would have because I didn't know the other, uh, way around. But if that's not you. The good [00:14:00] news is there's a lot of clinics that are growing.

They're getting much bigger and they're gonna have a lot of [00:14:05] opportunities for people like you to move into their, into their clinics. And the other cool thing about [00:14:10] you is you know what it feels like. You know what the pain of trying to do your own thing feels like. So the respect [00:14:15] factor you have for the person who's running that clinic.

Very different. And the opportunities you're gonna [00:14:20] get because of that are gonna be very, very different. Versus people that like, I hate to say it, but there's a lot of [00:14:25] entitlement around, well, well, I've been a clinician for 10 years, so I deserve to do this, this, and that. You don't deserve shit. Like, [00:14:30] you don't deserve anything.

You're, that's what the money's for. You're getting paid. To do your [00:14:35] job, right? Like if, if you want to be able to be entrepreneurial within a company and [00:14:40] add value, that's a completely different story. But that's not what most people want. Most people just want to show [00:14:45] up, do the same shit they would do and get paid to see these visits and then go home, you [00:14:50] know, and that, okay, that's cool.

That's a job. We would love to give you a fantastic job. But don't [00:14:55] confuse that with adding value in creating, you know, a better opportunity for everybody else there, which [00:15:00] is what the person that's. Running that clinic has to do. And that's a lot of risk, that's a lot of additional work [00:15:05] stress. Like those are the things these people can relate to, and it seems to be a very great [00:15:10] transition over to another clinic because they kind of know what the other side feels like by that point.[00:15:15]

Yves: Yeah. Uh, let's talk more about, [00:15:20] I don't want to go too deep down it, but the entitlement piece, like what I think a lot of people don't [00:15:25] realize is that you can only generate. [00:15:30] So much revenue for clinic at any time, you know? And I don't [00:15:35] think people base their salary expectations, which I guess I don't need to, right?

If you're an pl, if you're [00:15:40] going to work for somebody, you don't need to know the economics of exactly what's happening at the [00:15:45] clinic. But ultimately, if you have 10 years of experience or two years of experience, you know, [00:15:50] unfortunately, like in a physical therapy clinic, you're not gonna be able to generate more revenue.

I mean. [00:15:55] Maybe downstream, right? You keep people around longer. Maybe you do bring a few [00:16:00] people 'cause you have a caseload. But ultimately you can only see so many people in a week and only can generate so much [00:16:05] revenue. So, you know, I feel like that's a lesson that needs to be learned for, uh, a ton of [00:16:10] people.

You know, we're not a giant hospital system where they just. They have profit [00:16:15] centers kind of everywhere. So I feel like that's, you know, if you're thinking about going to work for somebody, just [00:16:20] remember that, you know, there's only so much that they can pay you. That's just the, the bottom line. And then [00:16:25] two, you're completely right, like we've, I have so many examples.

And even people who've done a [00:16:30] Rainmaker program, you know, tried to do their own thing, they kind of realize, ugh, business is kind of [00:16:35] hard. But now they're just a shoo in to go work for one of these cash clinics and they're employee number [00:16:40] two, and they get to grow with these clinics and they already come, batteries included.

And that is [00:16:45] huge for our mastermind members. Um, but you're right. I mean, I think I. [00:16:50] I don't know the statistics, but I would say 40%, 30% of the people that have started, especially [00:16:55] these, these last five, six years, have started clinics because they didn't have any other choice. Now [00:17:00] you can come outta school and you can be like, oh, I can go work for a cash clinic.

Like I. [00:17:05] We hired 160 different employees in the last six months in the Mastermind. [00:17:10] There's a massive amount of people and most of our clinics can't find good PTs [00:17:15] ultimately. So, you know, if you want a job as a cash clinician, you know, and have the opportunity, you know, [00:17:20] eventually to, to make some good money, then yeah.

You know, I would say go seek one out.

Danny: You [00:17:25] know, I think, I think that, um. Some people look at that maybe as like, oh, well [00:17:30] that was a, that was like a waste of time. That was a failure. I don't think that at all. I think [00:17:35] that if you have the courage to try and do something on your own, like a, that is [00:17:40] incredibly rare and.

Uh, that's, that's something that I respect [00:17:45] a lot. Whether you decide to go and work for somebody else at that, after that or not, it doesn't really matter. [00:17:50] I, it's not like I lose respect for those people. Like, you have to figure out what works best [00:17:55] for you. There's a lot of negatives to running a business to be an entrepreneur.

Like there's a lot of things [00:18:00] that are not healthy about that lifestyle, about, you know, the, the stress you take on that, the. [00:18:05] Just, I mean, the, the sheer risk that you're exposed to on an ongoing basis, that may not be the [00:18:10] right fit for a lot of people, for a number of reasons. Whether it be them personally or it be their, their [00:18:15] environment and the the family they have or the situation they're in, they may not be able to do that.

So, [00:18:20] you know, it's not like, it's not like, um, I view it as a failure. Because the skills that [00:18:25] you build within that is, are, they're massive and they're, it's not like they get taken away from you either. [00:18:30] Right. So, you know, the way, the way that I look at it and what I've seen with people that are, um, [00:18:35] that have done that with their employers that I've talked to about it, they're like, dude, these are the very [00:18:40] first people we're looking at when we're building a new office and we want have a, a owner operator in [00:18:45] place, you know, a partner that can focus on.

The business, but not the whole [00:18:50] business. And they understand, you know, elements of it or, you know, they want somebody to move up to a clinic director role [00:18:55] that's gonna be able to manage people and has, you know, a lot of, you know, understanding of how the business runs, uh, [00:19:00] things of that nature. And maybe it, it might even be transitioning to a completely different career field for somebody.

And that still [00:19:05] carries a lot of weight as you do so with the experience that, that they've gained. So I don't think there's [00:19:10] anything. Negative about it. In fact, I think it would be more negative if they thought that they [00:19:15] wanna do that and they just didn't try because they were worried that it wouldn't work out.

Like there's a lot of people that are like, [00:19:20] probably way more people like that than people that actually, you know, take a shot at it and then decide, no, this [00:19:25] isn't really the right move for me. And, you know, there, I think there's gonna be more and more of those, uh, of those [00:19:30] folks out there. But yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to talk to people about entitlement, uh, [00:19:35] entitlement because.

Oftentimes they don't even know what they want is somewhat [00:19:40] unreasonable, right? Like they don't have perspective for, um, for, for [00:19:45] any, any of that, right? They, they come in and they're like, this is great, so you're just gonna give me half the business, right? [00:19:50] It's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. Why would I do that?

You know, like [00:19:55] what versus, I mean, I don't know. I think that, I think back for whenever I worked for the Tourettes, I remember [00:20:00] like I rebuilt. I built the entire tactical division out. I re [00:20:05] rebuilt their entire onboarding for every new coach that we brought on, literally on my [00:20:10] flight to and from Australia.

'cause I had so much damn time on the plane that I rebuilt the entire [00:20:15] thing. It's not like I asked them, I didn't ask them for equity in their company. I didn't ask them for a profit [00:20:20] share. I didn't. I just cared about the company. I, I was just trying to like, make it better [00:20:25] so that our coaches would be better and it would be better for everybody.

Right. Like. I, I don't know [00:20:30] why that entitlement side of things exist, where people are like, well, if I do this and you gotta do this for [00:20:35] me, it's like, dude, if you just provide value ongoing, you're gonna get more opportunities than you can ever [00:20:40] imagine. You know? And if you especially don't ask for things in return.

It's gonna work out 10 times better for [00:20:45] you because your reputation carries a lot of weight. People remember that and they wanna work with people that they trust that, [00:20:50] that, like you're, you're a team player, you're doing things the right way and you're not, you're not [00:20:55] selfish about, you know, sort of your approach to your time, your efforts, whatever.

And I think that's where [00:21:00] everybody, they're too shortsighted with that. You know? It's like they're playing a really short game instead of playing this infinite game. [00:21:05]

Yves: Oh, a a hundred percent I think. [00:21:10] When you go in there and you're like, Hey, I'm gonna work really hard. I'm gonna build these things, you know, [00:21:15] I deserve X.

Um, that's just the wrong way to go about it. Right? Like, I love what you said, where it's [00:21:20] like, Hey, what's the vision of the company? I wanna help the company. And if I do that and I provide [00:21:25] value, I will escalate because ultimately it's risk and reward. You know, like it's really [00:21:30] risky to go run your own business.

And if you want the stability of being in another business, you know. [00:21:35] That's what you get. You get the stability, you know, and you don't have the risk of going outta business or worrying [00:21:40] about, you know, am I gonna get enough new patients, um, tomorrow? So [00:21:45] yeah, it always is a, I think a, a touchy subject. You know, even again, even the, I've [00:21:50] debating somebody, you know, just like through text and, uh, it's, it's, [00:21:55] I think it's health professional wide, because.

Like, what does a nurse or a doctor do? They [00:22:00] know how much revenue that they generate, how much they should do, um, you know, how much they should get based [00:22:05] off that. You know what I mean? Like, it's, uh, they don't really know ultimately, so it's [00:22:10] just a, I. I don't know if it's like a medical wide, you know, maybe there's other professions like [00:22:15] that as well.

But I think it's a difficult, uh, subject to kind of understand and [00:22:20] um, you know, a lot of it's cultural 'cause entrepreneurs are now, you know, uh, cooler than ever. They [00:22:25] weren't cool when we were growing up. Like, if you're an entrepreneur, you were a weird person. Now people are [00:22:30] advocating for themselves more.

So I guess always these things come typically with some sort of double-edged [00:22:35] sword because I love it. 'cause I want more entrepreneurs, I want more things happening. You know, I love it in general, but [00:22:40] there's probably. Gonna be some downside to it too.

Danny: Dude, I remember, I, I had a hard time [00:22:45] introducing myself.

I didn't know what to tell people I did. Right. Because I would say I'm a physical therapist, and then, you know, [00:22:50]

Yves: it's still weird.

Danny: Yeah. Because they'd be like, oh, can, what do you think about my knee? You know? [00:22:55] And so I stopped doing that and then, and I'll say, well, you know, I'm an entrepreneur [00:23:00] because we had like, kind of multiple things that we were doing.

And I remember I, I was at this [00:23:05] fundraiser, like we donated to this school, and I was at this fundraiser and. [00:23:10] You're, it's just always small talk, awkward, whatever. And, um, somebody asked me, and [00:23:15] there was like three or four people standing right there. They're like, what do you do? And I said, oh, I'm, I'm an entrepreneur.[00:23:20]

And one, this one guy was like, he, he kinda started laughing. He was like, typically that means [00:23:25] unemployed. And I was like, I started, I started laughing and I was like. [00:23:30] Historically, maybe, you know, that's, uh, that, that would've been the, that would've been the case. Um, [00:23:35] but, you know, it is, yeah. It's funny, man.

It's like entrepreneur culture. It's, it's, I think our [00:23:40] culture is becoming more self-employed in, in nature. Definitely. Um, you know, [00:23:45] across the board, a lot of people are going that direction. It's. You either work for like a massive company or you're [00:23:50] ma or you're self-employed. That's sort of the, I don't really see a lot of people working for small to mid-size companies [00:23:55] as much as you used to.

Um, I think it's, they're freelancing or, you know, they're, or they're [00:24:00] working at a big major, you know, company of some sort. But I think as a [00:24:05] profession, um, it aligns with what people want in a lot of ways with time freedom. [00:24:10] And, I mean, at some point you may [00:24:15] have financial and time freedom, but. Usually can't have [00:24:20] both for a while, you know?

Mm-hmm. You're gonna, you, you're gonna be, you're gonna have a lot of [00:24:25] time, meaning you're gonna have no clients to work with and you're gonna have no money because of that. [00:24:30] So you have a lot of time freedom. You're broke, uh, or [00:24:35] your schedule's really busy, so now you don't have any time freedom, but you're making good money.

And to get [00:24:40] to the point where you have both, that's where you really have to grow, uh, a significantly bigger business. [00:24:45] And that's where a lot of people end up getting tripped up and realizing, well, maybe this isn't the right move for [00:24:50] me. Or maybe it's just, it's just too much because it's a very hard thing to do.

Um, you know, so, [00:24:55] I don't know. I, I think maybe us putting content out about it obviously has something to do with why people wanna go that [00:25:00] direction and, and. And I'm very actually, you know, proud of the fact of how many people in our [00:25:05] profession have, um, have started their own their own things. And I think we're gonna see more and more and [00:25:10] more.

In fact, I'm really excited, you know, we'll be at CSM this year in February, and, [00:25:15] um, I'm even doing a presentation on, uh, cash-based clinics and the, [00:25:20] you know, sort of current opportunity that I see as well as what we've seen over the last decade. And it's such an [00:25:25] interesting. Topic to talk about. And I know we're gonna get a lot of students and new grads and [00:25:30] that's awesome because that's who's really interested in that and they're trying to, you know, tee up their career path going forward.[00:25:35]

But I think there's gonna be even more people interested in going that direction over the next 10 years. Right. So [00:25:40] that, that's gonna be an interesting to watch because for what we see now where people, there's a lot of people trying [00:25:45] and, and it's working out well and great, and then a lot of people are trying and it's not working out well and they become great [00:25:50] employees or they leave the profession.

I think we see that. Times of multiple of, you know, whatever. Uh, [00:25:55] over the next 10 years, I think it's gonna be even more and more likely that people are gonna go that path versus, you [00:26:00] know, take a job working at a big in-network hospital or something. Like, no, nobody wants to do that. Like, [00:26:05] nobody, nobody leaves school and it's like, I wanna see 20 people a day, plus [00:26:10] I want to have to be able to take PTO to go to the dentist.

You know, like, I want [00:26:15] to be burnt out in two years. Like, that's not what people are gonna school for. [00:26:20]

Yves: Yeah. I wonder if we'll get more of that data too, right? Like I don't, I don't know any of this, but like what's the [00:26:25] life, the life cycle of a nurse, right? Like how many people truly stay in that [00:26:30] profession for 10, 20, 30 years?

And maybe that's what's happening to PTs as well, right? Like [00:26:35] the funny part is. We have a shortage of physical therapist. Right. And like, [00:26:40] why is that? Is that because we don't have enough PT schools? I don't think so. Right. There are, there are a [00:26:45] lot of physical thera like that really hasn't changed. You know, maybe there are the, the profession is growing [00:26:50] right?

There is a bigger need for physical therapists than ever before. And I do think a lot of [00:26:55] people are choosing physical therapy more so than before. But ultimately. You know, my [00:27:00] best guess is, and I'm sure yours too, is just the people are leaving the profession, right? They, they get [00:27:05] emotionally drained or they realize it's not for them, or Yeah.

They can't find a job that they [00:27:10] enjoy because they're seeing, you know, four people an hour. Um, 'cause that's increased. Like we can, you [00:27:15] know, I did that presentation and say the mastermind reimbursement on average has decreased by [00:27:20] 36%. Yeah. You know, cost of living has increased in the same time period.

Over the past 20 years [00:27:25] by 75%. Like those economics don't work out. The only thing they can do is increase volume and increase [00:27:30] workload. You know, there's only eight hours in a day. So, uh, that becomes difficult and I think we're [00:27:35] just gonna burn through more people. Um, and that's, you know, [00:27:40] it's just a fact.

You know what I mean? And so good for us, right? [00:27:45] Because we're trying to get more people to do cash pt, you know, what does that look like for our profession going [00:27:50] forward? I mean, I mean, TBD, like, uh, I, I don't know.

Danny: Well, what's interesting [00:27:55] is, you know, one of the, one of the ways that insurance [00:28:00] would eventually have to reimburse more is if enough people opted out of taking it in our [00:28:05] profession, which is ironic.

Like if enough people literally, and were like, you know what, I'm just gonna [00:28:10] go, uh, flip this to a cash base Clinic insurance would have to re increase [00:28:15] reimbursement for physical therapists to see people in network. Period. You know, so [00:28:20] maybe it gets that, maybe it goes that direction eventually. Um, you know, [00:28:25] or maybe it comes down to clinics that are just like independently going out to businesses and just saying like, [00:28:30] let's cut out the middleman on this shit, right?

This is what we need to make. This is gonna be cheaper for you as [00:28:35] well. You know, you won't have these work comp claims, stuff like that. Um, I, I'm sure there's plenty of that [00:28:40] already, you know, kind of happening, but you'd have to find it the right fit and the right person for that to work with. Um, you [00:28:45] know, and I mean, maybe it's more, we work towards, a lot of these clinics are, are leaning in towards health, [00:28:50] wellness, longevity, you know, these things that people are looking for that involve living a high [00:28:55] performance, pain-free life for as long as they can, you know, and, and that is a growing percentage of the [00:29:00] population that realizes.

Well, I think I'm gonna live a lot longer than I expected. I'd [00:29:05] like to be able to do the shit I like to do. So maybe I should start investing back into my health. [00:29:10] 'cause it's been a minute since I've done that and I see a lot of baby boomers that are, you know, I [00:29:15] guess, I don't know if baby boomers, 50 plus, maybe not.

Uh, 50 to sort of 65, [00:29:20] 70. We see a lot of people in that range. That are really leaning hard into [00:29:25] like, okay, I've done a bad job of taking care of myself. You know, I've worked really hard. I put [00:29:30] myself in a good financial position, but like I could have all the money in the world if I'm not healthy. What does it matter?

[00:29:35] Right? And like that's a huge emphasis of reinvestment.

Yves: For sure. Uh, this is so [00:29:40] pertinent because, so I was a, a few mi few minutes late starting this, right. I go to the dentist [00:29:45] and my, uh, my neighbor grabbed me as I got outta my car. He's like, I, meaning he grab you forever. And he's like, [00:29:50] this guy's, he's retired.

I'm really bad with ages, but 60 seventies for sure. And he's like, [00:29:55] I'm buying Asuna, and like, I need to just like, tell me what to buy. Mm-hmm. And I was like. [00:30:00] That's, you know what I mean? Like that was kind of mind blowing to me. It's like, you know this, he's like, my [00:30:05] son told me to do it. I want to be, I want to be healthier.

He thinks I'm leaving a lot on the table. And [00:30:10] you know, he's probably, he is like, I'm gonna spend four to $6,000. He's like, I need to know which one to buy. And I was [00:30:15] like, that just shows you right? Like, because I put data together, like the data is that most people care about [00:30:20] their health and wellness.

And I love data, but ultimately, I've never had a 7-year-old neighbor [00:30:25] come up to me and tell me, you know, Hey, I wanna buy, buy a sauna and put it into my backyard. [00:30:30] I mean, like you do, you know? And so, yeah, no, for sure. And that's such a big opportunity for [00:30:35] clinicians, right? Like we've been saying it for a decade.

Like, we are perfectly positioned to help these people [00:30:40] stay stronger and be healthier, uh, for life, you know? And, uh, um, [00:30:45] it's cool to see. That grow along with our niche.

Danny: Yeah. His son's probably an [00:30:50] accountant listening to a three hour Huberman Lab podcast. You know that just

Yves: definitely

Danny: [00:30:55] not, just, not even in the health and wellness field.

I mean that's, that's how far reaching this is. Now that I'm starting to see [00:31:00] more and more people that are just like nonclinical, non, sort of like performance based jobs that are [00:31:05] really just like interested in learning more about health and longevity. I don't think it's a fad [00:31:10] man. I think it's literally a lifestyle change you're starting to make.

I mean, all you have to do is just look at the percentage of people that [00:31:15] don't drink alcohol anymore. It's gone up dramatically. I mean, it's just like, [00:31:20] it, it is such a higher percentage than it was 10, 20 years ago. Um, [00:31:25] and obviously people still do, but I know tons of people now that are just completely like, they don't drink at [00:31:30] all.

They don't, you know what I mean? They, they, they just are. No stimulants, no set of, I mean, I know people that have just [00:31:35] stopped drinking coffee, you know, and, and, and stuff like that. Just because they just want to be [00:31:40] themself, you know, they want to be, you know, no stimulants, no set, uh, you know, anything that, that's gonna go into their [00:31:45] body that's maybe addictive in nature, um, or affects their organs.

You know, they're just [00:31:50] concerned about that, which is really interesting. And, um, you know, I think for us, and, and this may be a good [00:31:55] segue into some of this industry report stuff that we see, we're seeing a couple trends that are, [00:32:00] um. Definitely something to keep an eye on. So number one, [00:32:05] we're seeing a increase in continuity, um, visits.

People that have, [00:32:10] you know, people that our patients are theirs, clients are theirs that are coming back for ongoing, [00:32:15] uh, visits. And for a lot of people, you know, this is settling somewhere in between 20 and [00:32:20] 40%, um, of their, of their visit volume. And the bigger clinics that [00:32:25] we work with, they obviously have.

A higher percentage of continuity. Uh, the smaller [00:32:30] businesses, the ones that aren't maybe, you know, able to generate as much revenue, they have a smaller percentage. [00:32:35] So it correlates really well the more. Of your revenue that comes from people coming back without having [00:32:40] you having to go and get new volume, the less new volume you need to snowball [00:32:45] schedules to have multiple providers stay and, and, and grow busy schedules.

Right, right. And [00:32:50] I think, I think that is directly correlated to the fact that people want this type of work and they're [00:32:55] looking for it in a number of different ways. And you know, I mean, you look at how many. Functional [00:33:00] medicine clinics are popping up. How many personal trainers are leaning into things like [00:33:05] longevity and functional health and you know, things of that nature.

Look at like Sonic Cold Plunge, [00:33:10] you know, labs that are popping up all over the place. Like some of this stuff I think is a bit of a fad, but [00:33:15] I don't think. This idea of wanting to reinvest in your body is going [00:33:20] anywhere. And we see it in the numbers as far as continuity and re uh, recurring visits going [00:33:25] up across the board.

Um, which is really cool to see. 'cause imagine if a third of your [00:33:30] revenue each month was coming from people just showing up, uh, for ongoing, you know, [00:33:35] work. It's easier on your staff, it's easier on your business, and you get to build these like really true long-term [00:33:40] relationships with folks helping them achieve.

Really cool, you know, lifestyle goals that they [00:33:45] have. Um, you know, and be able to really elongate the time period that they have [00:33:50] where they can be active and enjoy the stuff they like to do.

Yves: A hundred percent. I mean, we, I feel like [00:33:55] we identified this, like you and I, like, maybe three years ago, we [00:34:00] just saw the correlation, like the businesses that did the best had the best continuity [00:34:05] offers, right?

And so we put a lot of content around that over the last, last two to three years. [00:34:10] You know, we used to have this kind of minimum, right? It's like you gotta be at 20%. That's the minimum, you [00:34:15] know? And now that's grown, like you said, like people are hitting 40 to 60%. [00:34:20] Continuity, which, which is really cool. And we just know it's healthier for the business.

It makes it more stable, recurring [00:34:25] revenue. They need less new patients, which is typically difficult in a cash practice. And I do think [00:34:30] people enjoy it more. You know, like now I'm getting new evals, that's fun. I'm seeing people for a plan of [00:34:35] care, but also seeing people to work on performance and strength and like that variety of schedule for [00:34:40] me was absolutely huge.

So I love, um, I love that and it. [00:34:45] On a macro level, how much has this changed, Danny, like, think about it, like in PT [00:34:50] school, what did we learn? Get that person better as quickly as possible and then [00:34:55] discharge their ass. Do you know what I mean? Like I taught that I, it's, it's probably still being taught in school [00:35:00] and.

Now we're like, no. Like just don't discharge them. Keep them [00:35:05] around and keep them healthy, you know? And so at what point, you know, here's an [00:35:10] existential question. At what point will we start teaching that in PT school? Like it's great to get somebody a result. [00:35:15] I love that. But why would we stop there? Like it was literally an ugly word.

We literally were like, [00:35:20] if you don't discharge 'em and keep working with them and it's maintenance, you won't get reimbursed. And that's [00:35:25] bad. So don't do that. And so now we're like. We're flipping it over. We're like, no, keep them [00:35:30] around. Provide value and so they can stay, you know, our tagline and made moves [00:35:35] healthy and active for life, you know, and, and people want that, like you said, because they are living longer and they're [00:35:40] realizing that the quality of life, uh, can really drop if they don't, if they're not strong and they're [00:35:45] not fit and they don't feel good.

Danny: Yeah, I think that. [00:35:50] I think in the in-network world, it's, um, still discharged when their visits are up. I [00:35:55] mean, it was like that whenever I was in, in-network clinic. Um, I don't think that [00:36:00] that's really changed too much unless they have like cash programs in the backend, which would be smart for them to do.

Like I'm [00:36:05] thinking like big corporate clinics, you know what I mean? Um, but you also have [00:36:10] to know how to work with people in that capacity. And that's another really big linchpin is the fact that [00:36:15] a lot of folks don't know what to do with somebody after their pain is gone. And [00:36:20] so they do discharge them because of lack of skillset to be able to work with somebody ongoing.[00:36:25]

But keep in mind, like one thing that we saw when we implemented, [00:36:30] um, small group training classes at Athletes Potential was [00:36:35] that there's a subset of people that. There's people that we work with that are gonna go [00:36:40] back to their CrossFit gym or their functional fitness facility, or, you know, their group classes and stuff, [00:36:45] or training for their triathlon.

And that's, that's cool. Like they've got that exercise box [00:36:50] checked. Um, but there's a, there's a percentage of our population [00:36:55] that is hurt and is actively trying to get back to physical activity. [00:37:00] They don't really know where to go and they don't know who to work with and they don't wanna get hurt again.[00:37:05]

So the only real match for them is probably gonna be personal [00:37:10] training, uh, of some sort. But even then, you have to hand somebody off to a personal trainer that [00:37:15] really understands more special population work. This isn't, um, I mean these people are [00:37:20] coming off of injuries that have stopped them from able to do things in many cases for years and years and [00:37:25] years.

And so when we, when we opened up. Wanting to [00:37:30] work with these small groups and just testing it out. We were shocked. We had massive interest in it. [00:37:35] And not only that, but like the people that we worked with, [00:37:40] they, they stick around forever because now all of a sudden, I mean, it's with only a couple days a [00:37:45] week of actual structured training for somebody who's trying to have general physical [00:37:50] fitness and.

Wants to be able to go on a hike on the weekends and wants to be able to play [00:37:55] tennis with their friends, you know, non-com competitively, just, you know, just like play, play a [00:38:00] game, but not like maybe try to win a tournament or something like that. Yeah, like it's general training. Right. And [00:38:05] what they want is the ability to be able to say yes to more things that they.

They like to do and not [00:38:10] have to sit on the sidelines and watch, you know what I'm saying? Like then the amount many people, if their [00:38:15] kid or their grandkid ask them to like play, you know, I don't know, like a [00:38:20] little pickup touch football game. They would have to say no. Like I can't do that. I'm worried I'm gonna hurt myself.

[00:38:25] Yet they really want to do it. You know? They really want to participate and they can't. And [00:38:30] that's the kind of people that we actually have a really great opportunity to help because. The truth is they're not gonna go [00:38:35] to a functional fitness facility. You probably shouldn't send them to one because they're not appropriate for it unless they're gonna do a really [00:38:40] long elaborate on-ramp, uh, to get them, you know, ready and ongoing work [00:38:45] with, with them in a, in a way where we can do hands-on work and help.

Manage some of [00:38:50] their home exercises, um, plan updates and, you know, corrective exercises and mobility [00:38:55] work that can bolt onto whatever training they're gonna do. I mean, that's really valuable and they feel better. And when [00:39:00] people feel better, I mean, I, that's worth a lot, man. Like, people assign a lot of value to being in less [00:39:05] pain and being more mobile throughout the world to be able to do the shit they like to do.

It's, it's, it's even hard to [00:39:10] actually quantify. I don't know what the, I don't know what you put on there as far as like. [00:39:15] What, what's the value of being able to say yes to going hiking with your friends instead of saying, I can't do that 'cause I'm worried about my [00:39:20] knee, you know, and missing out on the social element, the community element.

What does that do for your life expectancy? Like, it's, it's crazy. We [00:39:25] know how important that is.

Yves: Yeah. I mean, uh, every single [00:39:30] guru, uh, every single thing you read, the number one thing. You have [00:39:35] to take care of before of everything else is basically your health. You know what I mean? So like, it's [00:39:40] basically worth everything, right?

Like we've had these conversations on the podcast before where we [00:39:45] know people who've sold companies for a lot of money, but if they don't have their health, mental and physical, [00:39:50] like they essentially have nothing. So like, uh, you know, we've had these ongoing [00:39:55] conversation, probably do another podcast on it where it's just like we don't.

Put a lot of worth in what we [00:40:00] do, but literally what we do is like one of the most important things, uh, that people [00:40:05] literally can't get anywhere else, you know? So I'm like, why are we not charging, you know, a [00:40:10] massive amount of money? Because what you just said is worth, um, yeah. Is worth everything, [00:40:15] man.

Just be able to play with your grandkids. Like all these things we've kind of like discounted it. It's not a big deal. It's like, no, [00:40:20] literally. It's everything. Like, if you don't have a quality of life like that, um, you know, it's [00:40:25] very difficult, um, to enjoy it. So being mobile and being active, I think, [00:40:30] uh, is actually, you know, it's huge.

It's everything. And, and we have to understand that we [00:40:35] are really valuable in that arena.

Danny: Well, you bring up, you bring up a good point about, [00:40:40] uh, if we look at, if we look at research on. [00:40:45] Life expectancy, quality of life, um, you know, blue [00:40:50] zone research, all kinds of stuff. There's a, there's a huge element of community [00:40:55] associated with

Yves: mm-hmm.

Uh,

Danny: with, with people that, that live longer. Now, you might get [00:41:00] that with family around you. You might get that with your, you know, uh, [00:41:05] local organizations you're involved in, you know, all, all kinds of different things. [00:41:10] Um, and I, and to go back to sort of this. This, uh, small [00:41:15] group training idea. The community side of [00:41:20] Misery Loves Company is really helpful.

It's, it's [00:41:25] a, uh, built in accountability tool. It's something that [00:41:30] people show up 'cause they wanna see each other, you know, they check in with their friends a couple times a week. A lot of times [00:41:35] these groups will end up going to grab breakfast once a week with each other or something like that. Um, and [00:41:40] it's really cool to see because.

Yeah. All right. Maybe we're working on whatever [00:41:45] split squats and getting their heart rate up a little bit and, you know, some mobility [00:41:50] work. We, we could, we could make it that superficial if we want, but to [00:41:55] have a place where you can check in on an ongoing basis to get. Uh, [00:42:00] access to a group of people that are, that have similar health goals, that expand your network to [00:42:05] other people that are like that.

And, you know, increases your community effect in [00:42:10] your, in your life, frankly, increases your, your life expectancy and your quality of [00:42:15] life based on extrapolating that out to data that's been collected in a number of different ways. [00:42:20] And I do think that's a big missing link for a lot of people. Um. So, you know, [00:42:25] looking, and again, just kind of going back to our industry report, which we're not gonna have too much time to get into, which is [00:42:30] fine, we'll we'll put it up as a resource, um, at PT Biz, uh, as well.

But [00:42:35] one of the things that I thought was very interesting was only about 24, 20 5% of [00:42:40] the people that we work with are actually doing any sort of small group training work, which, um, [00:42:45] maybe physical space constraints. It could be the fact that they're in a gym. It could be many different things, but. [00:42:50] When I talk to people about it, and I was with, you know, with Jake, [00:42:55] who is, uh, owns athlete's potential now, um, they do a ton of it.

I [00:43:00] mean, they have a wait list, uh, for, for that in Atlanta, and he just was blown away. He's like, I. [00:43:05] How would people not do this? You know? Right. It's the greatest way to increase lifetime value for the business that they've [00:43:10] found. It's such a cool way to be able to work with these people long term. Um, [00:43:15] you know, I mean, the people that they work with, like, they go on like vacation together, man, and like they, they go and do like, [00:43:20] you know, hikes together on the weekend and stuff, and it's just like, what a cool way to, [00:43:25] you know, get people healthy together in a, in a community, a small enough community where it's not like [00:43:30] overwhelming for, for people.

Um, and it's a great. Revenue addition to the business as [00:43:35] well. So I think these are the areas where we're gonna see. Business owners be more [00:43:40] sophisticated about how they're layering in things besides just visits that are gonna offset or decouple from just [00:43:45] traditional physical therapy. I think it puts 'em in a much better financial position, a better profitability [00:43:50] position, um, a better recurring revenue position, which is obviously huge.

And if we're really talking about [00:43:55] how do we make the best sort of long-term effect with folks, it's also far more cost effective to [00:44:00] go that route than it is to work with. A PT every single week, one-on-one. You know, it's [00:44:05] literally half as much as just like a weekly visit and, and, or, you know, it's [00:44:10] on par if not even a little bit less than working with a personal trainer.

Yet you, you're [00:44:15] missing out on the community element of what's going on. Um, and it's really not that much more individualized. It's [00:44:20] probably quite so similar.

Yves: Yeah, check, like, uh, I love what you said, it checks a lot of [00:44:25] boxes. Checks is the community piece. It checks, you know, doing strength training on a regular [00:44:30] basis.

You know, frankly, probably the mental health side, you know what I mean? Like, and you're still in a [00:44:35] clinic, so something goes on, um, you know, if you've got physical therapists right there. So yeah, it's [00:44:40] such a big opportunity and I think a lot of people just get stuck on the logistics of it. Like, how do I sell it?

Do I [00:44:45] have the space to do it? And there's a lot of reasons. Um. You know, to delay it, [00:44:50] but ultimately it can bring in a lot of recurring revenue. Provides a lot of value to the people around you. We know the [00:44:55] stick rate is really, really high, you know, uh, we do it at Made to Move as well. And like, again, [00:45:00] our therapists like the variety, you know what I mean?

Like, not everybody does, but like, hey, I, you know, I don't have to take any notes. [00:45:05] I can just go train people and then I'm done for the day. You know, you can hire it out if maybe you don't have PTs, but like, [00:45:10] yeah, it's such a great value add.

Danny: Super simple. You know, one of those things that I think is leaving a lot on the [00:45:15] table for a lot of folks.

Um, you know, and something to think about if you're really trying to add in [00:45:20] that layer of sort of ongoing work with people that, that I, I value a lot, man. Like I [00:45:25] always, I never got to work with anybody like that when I was in the military. Just didn't happen. You know, we [00:45:30] were basically barely have enough people to work with actual, like, injuries that are going on and.[00:45:35]

To work with people on a, in more of an ongoing longevity, you know, [00:45:40] standpoint maintenance. And it's, um, it's rare. It's a really cool thing. And, [00:45:45] and for you to, for you to match something up with your business that's good for the business and with your, with your [00:45:50] clients, it's great for them. Like, it's such a, it's such a great win-win.

That's what you gotta keep in [00:45:55] mind is it's worth it for you to learn how to work with people. Pass them just being [00:46:00] hurt for the outcomes you can help them get and, and frankly, they need it. They need people like us that can help [00:46:05] them with that because it's so confusing. You get on Instagram or Facebook or [00:46:10] YouTube or, and there's, they're just bombarded with a bunch of, I.

You know, [00:46:15] information that, who knows how valid that is, who knows how valid it is applied to their specific [00:46:20] scenario. Yeah. You know, their background, their goals. Like, it's just general stuff out [00:46:25] there, right? Should everybody take 20 grams of creatine a day and, you know, should, should [00:46:30] everybody be looking at, you know, peptide therapy and should everybody be doing like, you know, [00:46:35] plyometrics and sprinting and all this?

So it's, it's just like. Yes, maybe. [00:46:40] Yeah, I don't know. Like, it depends, right? And that's where the individualization of that person is so [00:46:45] important and where we can, where can be so beneficial and decrease some of the, the [00:46:50] clutter that's out there where, where what happens is they just get confused and do nothing.

And that, [00:46:55] that is not the right place for them to be. They're not gonna make any change that way.

Yves: Yeah, one of my favorite, [00:47:00] uh, it was like an Instagram reel. I, and, uh, he was like [00:47:05] drinking tap water, right? And then he played a video of somebody like, no, tap water can kill you. [00:47:10] And then he went over and drank like, uh, you know, LaCroix like, no, this will kill you.

And it was like [00:47:15] six different versions of water. And there was a video. And he is like, wait a minute, [00:47:20] just don't drink water at all. Like, that was one of the videos actually, where it's like, actually it's a, it's a [00:47:25] blank and it'll dehydrate you. And they're like, oh my God. Like, yeah. I think, [00:47:30] uh, particular nowadays, like, yeah, what, like what do you know what's right for you [00:47:35] ultimately?

Right. And we're clinicians and we know kind of like, it depends and you've gotta kind of figure these things out, but for a [00:47:40] lot of people, yeah, they're probably so confused. And I do think that's. Really big area we can help [00:47:45] them with.

Danny: I think more people need to drink out of a hose, you know, like,

Yves: dude, I love drinking out of the hose.

[00:47:50] I do it every morning.

Danny: You still drink outta a hose every morning,

Yves: dude? Uh, yeah. 'cause I have my [00:47:55] athletic greens and I work out in my garage and there's always just a little bit there, so I dump some in the hose. So. [00:48:00] And then I'll literally, but I put it in there and I shake it up and I drink it and it always has that, uh oh yeah.

[00:48:05] Coppery taste, right? Yeah. So maybe there are metals in my body now. I'm not really sure. But like that [00:48:10] taste, it literally brings me back to my childhood and makes me happy because like, yeah, we drank out of a hose when we were [00:48:15] kids, maybe that we're dating ourselves, but like literally, I almost instantaneously feel like I'm seven [00:48:20] years old again and I'm happy.

Did you ever, did you ever drink

Danny: out of a, um. Like [00:48:25] A-P-V-C-A-P-V-C pipe that was set up like a, basically it was like, like like a horse [00:48:30] setup where it's a long PVC pipe on two sort of stilts. And they would puncture holes in it and [00:48:35] then they would turn it on and the pressure would just shoot outta the little holes at the PC PVC pipe.

And you have to stand there with your mouth open. Trying to [00:48:40] catch like the littlest bit of water during football practice with your pads on. It is like the easiest [00:48:45] way to get. Like, I don't know a ton of people water, but like the tiniest bit of water [00:48:50] because it's, it's the hardest thing to actually like get much water unless you put your mouth directly on [00:48:55] the PVC pipe, which is probably not happening.

Yves: Whatcha talking about what kind of crazy shit did they do when I [00:49:00] got

Danny: You've never seen this? Oh my gosh, no.

Yves: Maybe I'm in, in the minority. I didn't play football, I played soccer, but like, I have [00:49:05] never heard of that. That sounds crazy to me.

Danny: There's some, there's some, um. [00:49:10] Texas and Georgia Water Buffalo. You know, like it's a,

Yves: the kids [00:49:15] here drink this and just shoots into like,

Danny: dude.

And the worst part is like, if people are like, I mean, we're [00:49:20] dehydrated as hell, you know, doing like multiple practices a day, two days. Yeah. If you were like an underclassmen, [00:49:25] you just get slung out of the way so some dude could get more water. So you got even, uh, even less. And yeah, [00:49:30] and it tasted like came outta PVC pipe, you know?

So, you know, I think, I think, uh. Yeah, like [00:49:35] we've come a long way, let's just put it that way. But probably good to finish it on that one. Guys. I hope that, uh, I hope this was [00:49:40] helpful. Hope that, you know, our inside sharing some of this stuff from the event gives you, I dunno, I [00:49:45] think of it like a 30,000 foot view.

I think that's kind of where we fit in right now is just, um, being able to see [00:49:50] what's going on on a higher level and be able to share that is, is pretty, pretty awesome. At least, you know, I, I really [00:49:55] like seeing these. Uh, how these things connect and what the trends are and being able to share those. [00:50:00] And I mean, this is what, what we saw this weekend.

This is what we saw with our industry report, which again, will be available on our site as a [00:50:05] resource you can download. Um, pretty interesting stuff. Uh, we had a bunch of clinics that participated in that. We really [00:50:10] appreciate them sharing their data. Eve, anything you wanna finish with?

Yves: No, no. I'm definitely excited.

I feel like we [00:50:15] have such a great sample size, right? If you wanna understand what cash clinicians are doing right now, you know, 'cause [00:50:20] everybody has some form of cash, mainly all cash, some hybrids, and you're like, well. What are their, [00:50:25] what is their prices right now? Yeah, what kind of packages are they selling?

You know, like we talked a little about continuity, [00:50:30] so like, check that out. And I think it'd be like, Ooh, where do you stand? You know, do you feel like you're in a good spot? So yeah, I'm [00:50:35] really excited. I was really excited to give that to our mastermind. Really excited to kind of get that out in the public so you can kind [00:50:40] of see like, hey, where you're at, like, are, are you doing good or doing poorly?

Really never had these benchmarks before. So [00:50:45] excited to get that out into the, into the universe.

Danny: Yeah, for sure. Um, thanks for [00:50:50] listening. Thanks for watching. Report at physical and as always, we'll uh, catch [00:50:55] on the next one.