E444 | Raise Your Prices With Roger St. Onge

 

Are you willing to be comfortable with being uncomfortable? We can’t answer that for you! But we can show you the path, give you the tools, and gentle (and not so gentle) nudges in the right direction! If you want to learn how to raise your prices and charge what you’re worth (It's ahem in the 200s) then…

Listen to this episode! 

If you want to know why raising your prices is essential to a healthy cash-based performance business then…

Listen to this episode!

Hope you're as fired up as we are!

Check out Roger's practice here!

www.physicaltherapybiz.com/apply

PT Everywhere: https://pteverywhere.com/

Do you enjoy the podcast?  If so, leave us a 5-star review on iTunes and tell a friend to do the same!

Are you a member of our free PT Entrepreneur Facebook Group? Join today!

Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] So one of the best ways to improve your customer experience, which we know will dramatically improve your business, is to have clear lines of communication with your clients. And that's something that can be really hard with these multiple channels between email and text. And what you really need is to centralize that in one place.

And that's something that we've been able to do as we switched over to PT everywhere within our client's accounts. We can actually message right back and forth with them. They can manage their home exercise plan within there, and it allows us to really compartmentalize the communi. That we have with those clients, instead of losing an email in the inbox or missing a text and, and then you're, it's very hard to dig yourself outta that hole because they feel like you're not very responsive, you know, with them.

And for us, it's made a really, really big difference. It helps make our staff more efficient. It helps us not miss things as much with the volume of people that we're working with. And it's a really smart way of really compartmentalizing. Your communication with your clients so it doesn't interfere with the rest of the channels.

You have communication with family and friends and things like that, so I think it'd be huge for your practice to centralize it the way we have. Head [00:01:00] over to pt everywhere.com. Check out what our friends are doing over there. I think it's really cool and I think you really like it. So here's the question.

How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about? This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Mate, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

Uh, Dr. Here, PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group, the PT Entrepreneurs Podcast. Uh, we got a cool podcast queued up. Today. We have the great and powerful Roger St. Nos and his office manager, ninja slash Ninja, Jess Wildes, on today to talk about how do you, how do you talk to people when they're interested in working with your practice?

Not only that, but how to. Charge what you're worth. Go through raising your [00:02:00] prices effectively and doing that across the entire team. Uh, especially as you start to get more people involved in the mix, because I think it's really, it's very easy when it's just you, right? Mm-hmm. And you're just like, okay, I'm just gonna raise my rates.

But I remember when, you know, when we had our, our first price raise, and it wasn't just us. We had, we had our office manager and we had another pt, and they were, it was, it was a price raise from $175 to 199. And it was, One of the more difficult conversations I've ever had. Half of 'em thought we, everyone was gonna leave, that they wouldn't work with us, you know, so it's, it is challenging and I, so I think you guys have done a really good job of it, so I'm excited to dig into that today.

That can

Roger: be so hard that I've had other people that like ask me to talk to their, to their team, like Chris brought me in, uh, to, to, to talk to a team about it. Cuz it's all about your mindset, like 100%. If you think that you're gonna be, uh, taking people's grocery money or they're not gonna be able to pay their mortgage and, or like it's be the end of the world.

Uh, it's not the guy was. I was thinking about it earlier actually. I think we were chatting about, uh, something and [00:03:00] if, you know, if you on average see, uh, 25 clients a week, which is like a lot of people's goals, right? And if you, they'll say on average four weeks, right? That's a hundred patients a month. Uh, and then if we take that for 12 months, that's 1200 patients.

And if you just charge people $20 more, you can make an extra $24,000. For doing the

Danny: same amount of work in profit, by the way in profit. Yeah. Like that's not, that's after expenses, right? I mean, it's like, that's one of the things with a, a price raise. Uh, that makes such a big difference. Now, ultimately the goal is like, we want profitability.

And to, you brought this up as well so that some, somebody like Jess can have a great job, you know? And actually, You know, be a part of an organization that can support having benefits and a good salary for people and, and a good place where they wanna work. And I think that is, like, it's something that we see, uh, so many problems with within our profession, where on the clinical side, we burn people out, right.

Um, just with volume and things like that. But, but also, I don't think that we [00:04:00] pay. Clinicians what they should make. Um, you know, and it's up to us to be able to have a profitable enough business to be able to support them and so they can support their families. Right. And so like a, a price raise, it's profit, but that profit also allows you to then pay your people better, right?

To, to like actually be able to, you know, help them with benefits that you know, that they want. And real small businesses can be really hard. So, um, I, I'm, I'm all about it and, and I think. People have not done it. It's fearful for sure, for the first one. Um, you know, so, uh, I, I do wanna dive into this though, Jess.

I don't necessarily know you that well, although you guys have some sweet matching jackets. Uh, this way, like that is, uh, well, I guess they're sort of matching. They're definitely like branded. I like it. It's,

Roger: uh, no. Yeah, they're the same, they're the same thing. Just like a male, female version.

Danny: Oh, they're, they're legit.

This, I like it. You guys are like on point, uh, looking good. And, but wait, tell me about your background, Jess. So, like, what did, what were you doing before Roger somehow convinced you to work for, uh, or, or work, work with him, uh, as his office?

Jess: That's a loaded [00:05:00] question. Um, because I think the question is, well, what haven't I done?

Oh, wow. Okay. Um, I am, I'm the kind of person I had, I think three different jobs at any given time. Um, all working very underpaid, just trying to make ends meet type things. Um, I worked at I think two different gyms as a personal trainer, as a coach. Um, I worked a bunch of retail jobs. Um, bank, I was at a bank for a little bit.

I was a dog trainer for a little bit. Uh, I worked at Disney World as a photographer, so like, Yeah. Yeah.

Danny: You sound like our office manager. She worked on like a blueberry farm in Maine. She worked at, on like some, uh, uh, like e d m music tour. Uh, she like literally has been to like over a hundred Grateful Dead concerts.

Like she and she, she was like a high-end waitress. She worked at a, uh, it was a like parking lot company. They basically just manage. The, the machines that parking lots use for payments. Like, she had all kinds of different jobs. Right. And then she's been with us for six years, so it's, uh, it's been great.

So, so tell me this. So, [00:06:00] so, okay. Roger, you know, gets in touch with you. You, you got, you decided it's a good fit. Um mm-hmm. What, what, what has been, what, what, what's been the, the best part of being able to be involved in a, you know, a, a performance-based practice and what's been like the most challenging thing that you've had to.

Jess: Hmm. So I think one of the best things is I, I'm very active in my local fitness community. Um, I'm a CrossFit coach and I'm, like I said, I've got my fingers in several different gyms, and I never really knew where to send people if they got injured. Yeah. And I was always like, I don't, I don't know how to help you.

And I think one of the best things is I now have like a very reliable resource to be like, trust me, we're gonna be able to help you out. We're gonna get you back to doing all the things that you love and. Like, I know it's going to be a good result for them, and they're gonna get what they're looking for.

I, I live here.

Danny: Yeah. So, so what, what's been challenging for you? Like what, so you had all these other jobs, right. But like, you know, it's, it's kind of a, there's multiple skillsets that you really have to be able to be able to pick up and be pretty good at. [00:07:00] Mm-hmm. Um, what, what's been the hardest thing for you to, to really sort of, you know, get, be good at, um,

Jess: waking up in the morning.

So,

Danny: really, he laughs You're not, you're not coaching the 6:00 AM classes, like you're the

Jess: evening I am. Oh, I, I, I will, but I'm not conscious for it. Um, no. Given that my job's pretty much ranged from like a 5:00 AM shift all the way to like eight or nine and at night. Like having that consistent schedule, like, all right, you need to be here at eight and then leave at four.

That's great. But the making sure that my schedule is all organized and I'm doing all the things that I need to do. I mean, Roger can attest I've. Six different notebooks with six different calendars to make sure everything's getting done. She blocks her schedule. I do, I block my schedule. Yeah. Um, so that's been, I think the biggest challenge is just making sure that every, all of my docs are in a row.

Mm-hmm. And making sure that I am present for everybody on my team because, You know, I need to make sure all that stuff

Danny: is done. Yeah. Well, in a lot of ways, you know, I think this is one of the most important [00:08:00] roles in, in practices like this because it's such a, um, it's like a, it's a, what do they call, like a keystone kind of role, right?

Where everything sort of is leveraged off of that and uh, you know, cuz you have to be able to be forward facing. But then it's also. Organized enough to be able to, you know, collect data for meetings. Uh, being able to schedule people, also be personable enough with people to where you can talk to them when they come in and, uh, you know, so.

It's funny, our office manager, uh, she was a CrossFit coach when we hired her. She coached for years after that doesn't anymore. But I think that skillset very similar to being like a waiter, a waitress as well, where you're kind of like managing a lot of different things and you're, you're pretty, you know, able to manage your time well.

Um, do you feel like that's, that helped you in this position coaching? Oh, absolutely,

Jess: because it's, It really does teach you a lot of people skills. You know, it teaches you how to deal with different types of people and depending on when you speak to them during the day, they could have just had their morning coffee.

Mm-hmm. And they're feeling so good. Or like [00:09:00] that coffee's kind of wearing off in the afternoon and they're kind of cranky. And just being able to, to read the room and read the people in that room and know how to. Phrase your questions or, or, or act slightly differently depending on their mood. It's been super, super

Danny: helpful.

Yeah. Um, so let's, let's talk about your current role. So, uh, you know, would you say if you had to rate yourself zero to 10, when you're doing like, forward facing stuff as far as client, you know, client work or inbound calls, things like. Zero to 10, where are you at? And then on the back end, you know, as far as everything being organized and where it needs to go, zero to 10, where are you at on that?

Cause I think those are the two skillset sets that sometimes it's hard to find somebody that can kind of mesh those together normally a little bit better at one versus the other. So where are you at on those? I would, I'd love to know how you rate yourself. Yeah,

Jess: I will, well, I will never give myself a solid 10.

There's always room to improve, so I'm going to be a little harsh on myself. I'm probably gonna say like for front end, like a 7.5 to an eight. [00:10:00] Um, you know, and then on the back end, which is my more favorite end, I would say he laughs. But, um, I would say like an 8.5 to a nine. I, I love. Backend

Danny: stuff. It's like my teammate, he laughed cuz you said backend cause he's a child like me and every time I hear that I laugh

Roger: a little bit.

So a little bit. But Jess fun fact, right? She, we've done a lot of sales training and role playing conversation stuff like, which is really important. Like, you know, practice those conversations. She. Fucking hates it. She hates being on the phone and doing those first. She's really good at it. Really? Wow. She does not like it at all, but very much like visionary integrator role that we accidentally fell into.

Mm-hmm. So I think one of her biggest things is, uh, challenges is really fully blossoming into the full integrator role and telling me no. More often that's still an uncomfortable thing for her. Like, Roger, too many ideas. Calm. Yeah,

Danny: I think it's important to have that rapport though. You know what I mean?

Like, um, I, the, the ability to trust the opinion of somebody else, like, like Jess [00:11:00] is, it's so big because the things you're doing on a day-to-day basis, you'll see things. You're like, this could be more efficient if we did this right. And you know, there's this idea of like a genius with a bunch of people that are like not as smart as him, that are working for them, versus a team of smart people working towards a common goal is like that.

That's like really, obviously we all. Have other smart people around us, but you have to empower smart people and like give them the opportunity to do the things that they see that they could be better. Um, and that's hard for people to like go up sometimes, especially in like really small companies. So, um, let, let, let's do this.

I I I wanna dive into sort of like the tactical stuff, the stuff that, you know, you definitely have learned and you guys have done a good job, uh, with. So tell me about like, okay, if, if somebody is, is calling the. And you are having that first conversation with them, you know, where they're just figuring out if, if you know your practice is the right fit for them.

Probably just wanna know if you take their insurance, any number of other things. Like what are your goals on that first call? Like, do you have certain things you're like, man, if I can do [00:12:00] these, you know, 1, 2, 3 things. It's probably gonna be a successful call. Mm-hmm. Is that, oh, that's a me question. Well, both of you honestly, but I would like to know what you say before Roger, sort of, you know, uh, chimes in.

Okay.

Jess: Um, me personally, like if I can get, if I can get like where they're at. Currently, if I can get what they wanna get to, and then if I can get their feelings around it, I'm a big feelings person and we really like to get really into the nitty gritty of like, well, how, how does that make you feel? You know?

Mm-hmm. And if I can get their mindset around all of that and I can figure out if it is a problem that we can help 'em solve, I would consider that successful. So to kind of elaborate, like if we have someone who. Is feeling a certain sort of way about like an injury, but we can't help 'em. Like I have found that there is a problem to be solved.

And then from there it's like, can I help refer them [00:13:00] out to a place? Sure. Or is it something that we can help 'em with? So that's the point where if I can get to that point and be very well versed in what they're feeling, I would say

Roger: that's successful. Third option, if they're a pain in the ass and we can help them, we still wanna send 'em somewhere else.

Cause I don't want that in my clinic.

Danny: You know? That's a great point. Because I think that there's this idea of, I forget what book I read this in. They talk. Your red velvet rope policy, right? It's like letting somebody pass the red velvet rope to get in the club. Do they have to be like a certain person does that right?

But like in your business, you don't want to bring people in that are gonna be pain the ass to work with that are just like, not worth your time. And, and cause you know, they, they use a lot of your resources and they just make everybody like they're energy vampires and they just drain everybody. Not say that we don't want, we don't obviously wanna help as many people as we can, but at a certain point if you're busy and you have like a wait list and you know, you can be a little more choosy about who.

With, it's all about just managing your sort of energy and your team's, you know, energy during the day. Um, you know, I, I do, I love how you broke that down, right? So, where they're at, [00:14:00] where they they want to go, what's, what they want to do or accomplish, get back to, and then how do they feel about that? So, so I, I feel like that last part is what people have a hard time with.

Did you, did you have, uh, challenges with talking to people about how they felt about thi like, random strangers be like, how does that make you feel? Like, is that hard for you? Oh, absolutely.

Jess: Um, like Roger says, I have, like, I, I do my best and I try to put my best foot forward on all of these phone calls, but they're very difficult for me.

Sure. Um, just because I have a hard time challenging people sometimes. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, well, how, how does that make you, how does you feel about that? And they're like, I don't know. I'm just. And I get these like one word answer questions, like I, I don't know what to do with that. Thank you.

Danny: It's tough though because some people will, I mean, they'll just talk for five minutes about how they're, that makes 'em feel, right?

And they're just, they just dump it on you. And then other people, it's, yeah, it's like, well, it doesn't make me feel good. You know? And then, and then it's back to [00:15:00] you, you know, and you're, you're like, ah, crap, what next? Uh, so yeah, some of that's really can be

Roger: challenging. She's gotten really good at that though.

And then I think that's a huge point. And it's conversations. If people are giving you shitty answers, you, you need to get good answers to questions, right? Mm-hmm. Like, we'll ask questions two. Three times different ways, right? Like we like to ask people like, you know, how do you see, you know, besides.

Getting back to playing with your kids and, and being able to run again. Like, how do you see getting rid of this pain? Maybe, you know, benefiting you the, the most though they like. Well, sometimes people are like, well just get, you know, playing with my kids, being able to run. It's kinda like the biggest benefit.

Yeah. Yeah. But like, besides that, like, how else do you see this affecting you? Like digging in deeper, like, oh, well then, you know, Uh, I wouldn't be so irritated with my husband all the time and blah, blah, and then it gets deeper. You know?

Danny: That's a great point. I mean, look, if anybody's ever, I'm assuming we've all had an injury here, in fact, uh, Jess, I would like to dig into that for a second and see how you can relate to people.

But, you know, when we're hurt and we can't do things we want, our emotional control is less. Like we just don't have the same sort of, we're not as happy, you know, like there's [00:16:00] a lot of things. That we gain from being able to be physically active to do the things we wanna do, not just the physical side.

Not as far as the mental side goes. So you, you've been a CrossFit coach, like have, have you had, uh, have you had injuries that you've had to deal with that when you talk to people on the phone? Has that, has that helped you resonate with them in, in any way? Absolutely.

Jess: So, believe it or not, like the way I met Roger was through a shoulder health and mobility clinic back when I messed my shoulder up really bad.

I

Danny: iMatch, I think so we met our office manager through a shoulder workshop. No, no kidding. This is a, and then she was a little, she was kind of a groupie. She came to like every workshop she was trying to learn as a, as a coach, right? She just wanted to learn more about what we were talking about. But yeah, this first one was, should.

That's weird.

Jess: Yeah. So I, um, I injured my shoulder doing a barbell rollout and it kind of wasn't the same since, and I've, I've seen actually all of the doctors in our clinic about some issue, another either through [00:17:00] CrossFit through, um, any of the other sports I play. And whenever I have someone on the line that has a very similar injury to one that I've experienced, like.

My shoulder, I had a low back thing going on for a little bit. Um, I actually, when appropriate will be like, you know, I'm not saying this as a person who's trying to get you on the schedule. I'm saying this as a person. Person. Um, I can relate to that. And just kind of give a little short version of how they helped me out because the overall, the conversation's not about me, but I feel like adding that little anecdote does make it a little bit more relatable.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. You know, it helps build rapport, you know, you guys have some common ground. Um, I feel like that's the challenging part, right? That that first call people can be really defensive and you can find that common ground. It's big, especially your, it's an experience share where now you can tell a story and they put themself in the same place that you were in, you know, and your outcome was positive.

So that's, that's always really big. Um, you know, Roger, you know, [00:18:00] for, for you, you know, as far as. Training goes. What have you found for, for the practice owners out there that has been like the best sort of like dollar productive time as far as training goes with front, front desk, um, to really be able to build some of the, the, the front end skillsets, the conversation base skills, not necessarily the organization on the end, but the actual like, you know, sales side of.

Roger: Yeah. Um, role place like period, just 100%. Uh, we have, so Jess's the manager, but we also have Becca, who's not here right now, who is, is taking over the front desk. Lots of the phone calls. She's part-time right now. She'll, she'll work way into to full-time. But, um, just role place. I have an hour. Every week that I spend with her, literally just role playing.

And we don't even go through the whole conversation. We break down like sections and I give her a hard time and I stop and I pause and, uh, I tell her where she could do things better. But that's huge because it's the tonality, it's the pacing, it's the way you ask a question, [00:19:00] uh, is very influential.

Danny: Right.

Explain that a little bit because first of. Gi give everybody an idea of what role playing is besides what they probably think it is and what you're, what, like what you're doing at, at the office. But also I think the tonality in the way you phrase questions makes a huge difference. Uh, and, but like, kind of tell us a little bit about like what you do with that and, and what you find with that, that, that is important to work on.

Yeah. So,

Roger: um, when it comes to these conversations, it's really important to not. Be reading your script to people, right? So one role playing helps you memorize the, your role. If you're, you know, watching a movie, uh, you don't see, um, I don't know who's a big guy, Tom Hanks or Will Smith, or whatever, right? You see the person that they're portraying, but everything that they're saying is scripted.

But they've practiced it, they've got to know it. And it's that tonality and the way that they deliver what they're saying that makes it, uh, a personal experience for you, where then you see [00:20:00] them as that person that they're portraying, right? So I think that's just a good frame of reference for people to have.

But then when we're role-playing, they literally. Will have the script out or have it up pulled up on the computer. And we will go through and I will be, uh, a client or, you know, Miguel or Alex or somebody will be, um, a client. I mean, we used to have, when I was subleasing from a gym, I used to have the gym's front desk call us and like, actually, so I'll get on the phone, I'll walk around the building, we'll do it face to face.

We'll do, uh, you know, whatever we have to do to make it successful. But upfront, I like to sit kind of near people and just have them pretend to answer the phone. I'll be like, ring, ring. And they'll answer the phone and we'll just go through the first kind of section and then I'll tell them, I'll ask them, you know, what do you think went well?

What do you think didn't go well? And then I'll give them my thoughts. Or if they ask me a question and it's like, it didn't hit well, I'm just like, Nope, do it again. And I'll. Demonstrate how to ask that question for them, and then I'll have them do it again. But you can see even here, like I'm talking with my hands and you know, if you can stand and you can move around and you can use your body [00:21:00] language, that really influences your tone of voice.

Sure. If you're just sitting in, you're here and you're not moving, then that really influences your tone of voice as well. And that makes things hit very differently because verbal like communication. Like the words are only 7%, right? The rest of it's body language and they can't see your body, so they need to hear what you have going on.

So we work a lot on those kind of things. If I'm like, if you're, if you're telling me that, um, you know, you can't run and play with your kids and you can't work, and I'm just like, Hmm. Has that had an impact on you? In what way though? Right? Like robot? Like that's not like, oh, like has that, has that had, um, had an impact on you?

Uh, okay. In, in, in what way though, right? Like the question just hits very differently. It gives you a different feeling inside, and it's very important to have good conversations that actually flow. Like conversations that you use, tonality, [00:22:00] you stop and pause before you respond because they call it like leading and pacing, right?

If we're talking and you stop talking, I immediately start talking. You're gonna immediately do the same thing. But then there's other emotions that get imparted. Like, oh, they're just waiting to talk. They're not like actually listening. And if you stop and think about what you're saying, that's gonna encourage the person you're talking to, to stop and think about what they're saying and what they actually mean when people say something.

You don't just take it at faith value, we try to clarify and things like, how do you mean by that? I'm like, uh, I don't know. I haven't really thought about it. Gimme a second here to figure out like, what do I mean by that? You know, I feel like

Danny: this is spot on dude. As far as, uh, the tone side of things and in particular, um, you know, just understanding.

I guess the idea also that everybody is somewhat different, right? Like, so I guess script right is just, it's a framework, but the way that Jess, you might say things is not gonna be the same way as Roger. And this is actually a big mistake that our office manager made. Cause I would train [00:23:00] her and she'd be like, I just gotta say what Danny says, but I can say all kinds of crazy shit that she cannot say to Yes.

Right? Just because that's just my personality. And she tried to do that one time and she basically, she got this really angry follow up. Because she, she basically was like, okay, I'm gonna do a day today. I'm gonna like, I'm gonna challenge somebody on this and. They were like, don't take this the wrong way, but you were super rude on the phone.

And, uh, they actually ended up coming in anyway. But she basically just tried to take what I would probably say in, in, probably in, not even the way I would say it, but just the same words and, and use it. So I think it's important to find your own, your own voice, your own, you know, like flow of what works for you too.

Um, how long do you feel like it took you to figure that out, Jess? Where, where you were like, man, now I don't feel so robotic. Cuz everybody's like that initial. Yeah,

Jess: so, oh, I don't know, I would say good three or four months. It, it took initially to feel like I wasn't reading off a script and to get really comfortable with just talking to people in general.

Um, and then it took another, like three or four months after [00:24:00] that to really nail my tonality because, um, I'm a very excitable person when I get,

Roger: Jess got told one time that she. Too nice on the phone that she was too, um, I don't know what the word they was. It was too friendly. Too friendly. She was too friendly on the phone, and that turned somebody off.

They didn't come in, but then they told the, the local gym, like I called him, but like the front desk was like, way

Danny: too friendly. Is that a Massachusetts thing? I must, I was like,

Roger: no idea. I was like, what? Yeah, it's

Danny: a two

Jess: friendly, so I guess like, you know, People need some level of meeting them halfway. So when I get excited, like a little golden retriever about Yeah.

You know, getting somebody in and helping them, that can be a turnoff for some people. Sure. So it's knowing about modulating your tone to the person that you're speaking to.

Danny: That's great. You know, I, I, the other thing that, that you guys brought up too with, with Roger's tonality is just this idea of being kind of neutral and inquisitive.

Right? Like, I think of [00:25:00] that too. Just be like, just be interested in somebody else, but don't necessarily press your opinions of what they should do on someone else. So this idea of like, you know, sort of like, Not necessarily stuttering, but slowing yourself down on purpose. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and, uh, using language like I'm just, you know, I'm just curious or, you know, like using things that are not necessarily going to tell somebody what to do, but be able to sort of like, get them in a sort of like less of a, a guard up position initially as you're just talking to them about what's going on.

Because I think for a lot of people, They just don't even think about these other things, right? I mean, they think about them, but it's not necessarily maybe, uh, the conscious thought that they're thinking about all the time. They know their knee is bothering them. They know they wanna get back to running.

They know, they're like irritable more so, and they're frustrated and, you know, and, and maybe for them it's like coming to terms with the fact that. Uh, maybe they don't recover the way that they used to or something like that. And it's just like, it's this, sometimes it's this also transition of their, uh, [00:26:00] identity.

It, I think this is a big one for people where, you know, when it's, it's not like you can do whatever you want, but maybe you need to learn how to do it. In a better way, maybe like you're just not that efficient. Like, have you ever had, you know, anybody show you X, Y, and Z? And they're like, well, no, I thought I needed surgery.

You know, and all of a sudden now you've sort of reframed what's possible for them instead of just tell them what they should or shouldn't do. So I, I think it's, it does take some time though. So two to three months. And, and you felt like that's, was the tonality really the harder part for you? Or was it more the flow of the conversation?

What was you think was a challenging, uh, most challenging part?

Jess: I would say tonality. Yeah. Like I had to, a lot of people need to learn to tone it up and I needed to learn to tone it down. Ah, interesting. Which is, um, not something that we hear a lot of. Yeah. I think in a lot of training, so I needed to like dial it back, which was very

Danny: difficult for me.

Yeah. Um, okay, let's talk price raise, uh, you guys, so when you came in, what, what was your price point at and where are you guys? I don't re Where were

Jess: we at when I first,

Roger: I think we were at maybe at 1 99. Yeah. Think we were, we were at 1 99 [00:27:00] visit when we first came in. When she first came in, and now we're at, uh, three 50 a visit.

That's because Justin is

Danny: savage. Yeah. Big jump. Yeah. So, so, okay. Tell me a little bit about w with the price raises that you guys have gone through. Like, have you had challenges with that or are you like all about it? Like what, what was, what's your, been your experie.

Jess: Um, well, like, like we said, I think I've been the driving force behind a lot of our price ra our price raises.

So I'm always like, do it. I love it. Um, I get really excited about that because like, too excited. I see. But like, I, I love the idea of of raising rates just cuz it's like I value all the people here at, at the practice and like I value their time and I think that, you know, we should charge what they're worth.

Yeah. Um, we have not really gotten a ton of pushback. Like at all. Um, except for, I think that one time at the annual meeting you were like, what do we do? I'm like, raise our rates. And he is like, I

Roger: dunno, you're gonna have to edit that outta this podcast. Nobody can ever know

Danny: that I said [00:28:00] that. No, no one's gonna get, no, no one's gonna, you've lost all the respect from everybody.

But I mean, look, I think it's also, I think it's also important to put this in context. You know, the area that you guys are at, like, what would you say the, the average income level is in, in your area? I

Roger: just looked this up, um, because I had somebody tell me that they can't sell packages for $550 because they're in their area, because their income is too low.

So I looked it up yesterday, I think it was, and it's uh, we're selling $3,000 packages. Miguel over there is coming right from insurance, slinging like 80% packages. In a, an area where our town is about $30,000 annual income. Wow.

Danny: Like, wow. Yeah. The 10% of the annual income they're dropping on. A package with you guys.

That's, that's pretty, um, I mean, I, I think it's important for people to hear the perspective for that because, you know, they could say, oh, he is in, you're in Manhattan, or Oh, he is in San Francisco, or whatever, and, you know, it's, you're not, you're, you're in a, a, [00:29:00] a small to mid-size market, uh, you know, with a lot of, you know, really blue collar people.

And I think that what we do more than anything is we undervalue what we're worth, uh, with people and, you know, really. It's, it's really more US than anything else. Right? Because they don't necessarily even know, I mean, uh, do you think the average person knows what they should spend on, on their injury or their body or whatever it might be?

I mean, I, I probably not. Uh, so, you know, for, for you guys, what have you found even with your staff? Like, are there, is it more internal objections or just not sure if they can, you know, charge that or have you guys just not had any problems at all with this? I, um,

Roger: I think. When you run into objections with your staff, it's the way that you present things, the way that you think about it, right?

Um, And I think it's just the way that I present things from the beginning when people come on board with us that they are already thinking the same thing, right? Like for example, a, anybody listening to this, how long [00:30:00] did it take you to get the skillset that you have right now? And how much money, right?

That means if you were a coaching, CrossFit, if you're a strength and conditioning coach, all of that experience and knowledge comes into play cuz you're utilizing it right now. All of the time of going to PT school, plus the cost of that. If you've done a residency, if you've done a fellowship, any weekend courses, how much time away from your family?

They're not paying you for an hour. They're paying you for all of that back time. They're paying you for all of your life. That's right. The time of your life that you'll never get back, that you spend amassing this skillset to then be able to help solve this problem mm-hmm. That other people can't solve.

Right? Yeah. It's not the time that they're paying for, it's the, it's the result. Mm-hmm. Um, and then we, we spend a lot of time stressing like exactly that and like, Uh, having conversations around like selling packages and like even what that means and why we do that and why it's important and how that helps people get better outcomes, helps us build better relationships, better word of mouth, referral sources, and just [00:31:00] in general easier conversations where people are happy.

Happier on the backend, right? Like, so having those conversations and, and dealing with the mindset piece, I think right from the get-go when it comes into catch physical therapy is, um, is changing that situation for us.

Danny: Yeah. What, what about prior customers? Did you guys, um, what was your experience with, you know, people that you guys worked with that are coming back in, uh, and how do you guys go about handling that as far as this last price raise?

Did you let everybody know? Was it just if they came back in, we let them know at the time of their next session? Like what, what was your process?

Roger: Yeah. So I would actually, uh, I would probably do it differently if I could go back and do it again. Um, but we have had so many price races. We've raised the rates and then two months later raised the rates again, and then two weeks later raised the rates again.

And it's like, oh, but yeah. Well, because it's, we did some dumb things. I was like, instead of going from. We went from like two 19 to 2 29 and I was like, well that was [00:32:00] dumb. Why did we do that? We should go up to 2 49. Right? I was like, it's stupid. Right? Um, there's no point in making a jump like that small, actually make a real jump.

Um, so we didn't let anybody know. We just told uh, people as they came in, right? I actually changed the rates right in the middle of my old contractor pt. They had to let go. Um, I changed the rates cause I didn't have the sheet. In between two evals. So wow. One eval got the first rate cause that's what we had printed up.

And then I got back with the other rate sheet and I was like, Hey, I'm switching this. So then her next eval paid the next rate. And like, that's just what it is. You guys have to make the switch. Can't be like, oh, there's people here, there's people there like Right. Get them in. Um, and then anybody that was, uh, You know, was on a pack or wasn't on a package that was coming in per visit, we would not reach out to them, but we would tell them when they came in.

But we would say, Hey listen, we've actually increased our rates. Today's visit is at the old rates cuz we don't like surprises and I wanna give you a chance to be able to purchase a package if you. You want to at the old rates, if not [00:33:00] anything, you know, moving forward's, gonna be at our new rates. And, and that went over, uh, really well.

We, we have had some issues with, are some people that have like, uh, maybe gotten a package way back when it was like r a lot cheaper that are now coming back, but then it's not really a problem. They're just like, Wow, this is 50% more expensive than last time. Like, you guys are doing well, huh? Like, that's awesome.

Um,

Danny: and yeah. How do you handle that? I'm interested. What do you just blame it on inflation? You're like, oh, we got, we're, we're, we're getting healthcare for everybody. Like, what, what's the, uh, Like, what, what is your go-to with somebody in, because we get that, we get that too sometimes. You know, in fact on, I kind of laugh cuz somebody was like, oh, inflation.

And, uh, they're like, well, we're just trying to pay our people as good as we possibly can. Um, you know, and, and they're, these are the best people in the areas. We, it's hard to, uh, it's hard to keep 'em, I don't think I've explained it to anybody. Yeah, it's interesting, you know, for, for you guys, When, when, [00:34:00] um, you know, and some of this might not be you.

Right? So, Jess, like for you, as you've gone through some of these initial conversations that people have, um, have you had a hard time with the difference in price points being at this point almost was $150 different from where you came in until until now? Do you feel any difference in terms of how you have to have conversations with people?

Or is it just mainly your comfort level had to kind of improve? Um,

Jess: I think I've always been comfortable with it, if I'm being completely honest. Um, but I did real, I did, you know, realize that the conversations did have to change a little bit. Um, I, it actually spurred me to have better conversations with people mm-hmm.

And vet them better. So, I don't know. It's was this weird little mindset shift of like, okay, this is a really nice shiny high ticket item and I need to be able to provide the service that matches that. And therefore it actually kind of kicked me in the butt to make my conversations better for not just me, but for the person on the other line, [00:35:00] on the other end of

Danny: the line.

Yeah, that's, it's interesting. So, because you're, cuz you're charging more, you felt like you had to level up as. Yeah.

Roger: Yeah. But it's not that, it's not that she's changing the service that we're providing, like in general, right? Like nothing has changed about how we operate. We still operate exactly the same way, just more people doing it.

Uh, she just, uh, you know, it's, and that's what makes it easier when you have better convers. Conversations when we say better, we mean more emotional. Right? We're able to get to that next level, get people really invested. Mm-hmm. And get them telling, uh, you know, not even us, but telling themselves out loud why this is something that they need to do.

Jess: Yeah. I, if I might interject there too, like, um, In terms of tapping into that emotional aspect, like I have had people cry on the phone with me because we really like tapped into, well, she can't run and all of her friends run and she doesn't wanna feel left out because she loves her friends and loves spending time with them and like literal, just sobbing [00:36:00] on the phone because she was telling herself why she needed the help.

Danny: Yeah. Very interesting that I think, you know, it's, it sounds weird, but. The, yeah, if, if you're having conversations with people that are like, you know, that actually matter, you're gonna have a certain number of those people that are gonna cry. Uh, you know, I found this as I started getting into, like, I remember I had, uh, two people cry in my office whenever I was in the army, like over a seven year period.

Right. And it was awkward both times cuz that's not an environment where people cry. And are comforted very often, you know? And so like, I just kind of tried to make them feel better and you know, like, and I was like, whoa, that was weird. I didn't expect that. But as I got into private practice and we started to have more conversations with people about like what they're trying to get back to, it happened a lot, like a lot more.

And you're right, a lot, a lot of people are also like, they kind of. They push it down, they're ashamed [00:37:00] of not being able to do certain things or frustrated. Uh, and they maybe haven't even had a chance to talk to somebody about what's bothering them. And all of a sudden some random stranger on the phone that, you know, from a practice that they heard of from maybe their friend is talking to 'em about something that's like, On a deeper level than any doctor that they've ever talked to is talking to 'em about, right?

I think so. I think that in its own right is, uh, is rare and very, very valuable. And I think it's one of the advantages we have is having the time, you know, to have those conversations. And, and I'm interested like the people you've had these, these conversations with, where. They get emotional and frustrated.

Like how are they when they come in the office, like what, what kind of, you know, responses have you got from those people? Have, have you really enjoyed, you know, the rapport you've built with them? Like, what does that look like if you tap into something like that?

Jess: Mm-hmm. Um, it, it's been really interesting because like we have a lot of the people who come in and are like, you're the one who talked me on the phone.

You were so. I really appreciate all the time that you took out to, to talk [00:38:00] to me and Mo. I think all of them have been very good people, not only to have in the clinic, but like just good people in general. Sure,

Danny: sure. Yeah. I more people, I think, you know, and I'm interested to hear what you think about this, the population of people we get to work with, in my opinion, is the best part of the entire business model.

Like we get to work with really. Genuine, you know, people that are trying to be physically active, you know, that are trying to do the right things for their, for their vehicle and life, you know, their body. And we get a chance to help them get back to the things they like to do. And, and I know I, I, I, I think that, and on the clinical side, it's nice because we get to see less people and really use our skillset in a different manner.

But, uh, just on, on the other side of that, I think. The ability to be a part of something and, and you, you may not be dry kneeling somebody's butt cheek like Roger. Right. But being a part of that, like [00:39:00] how does that feel for you to be a part of somebody's journey like that versus, you know, any number of the other jobs you've had that maybe you weren't as tied directly to that person, or maybe even helping them with something that's quite as personally.

Yeah,

Jess: I, I love it. Honestly, like I've always said, that kind of my life's mission is to help people, like I'm a helper. Uh, and that's kind of why I got into coaching, uh, to begin with, was because I saw how much of a difference it made for me as like a person. Sure. And I wanted to be able to make that difference for other people.

So being here and being able to see someone walking in on their first day limping and just in so much pain, and then seeing them leave that same day. Feeling just so much better. Just gives my heart little, little warm, warm fuzzies. Yeah. And just to see them improve over their course of care is, it's really fulfilling.

Danny: Yeah.

Roger: Gives me a little warm fuzzy, listen, I've ever talk about how it gives her a little warm fuzzy.

Danny: I bet. It's, you know, it's just such a, it's such a cool thing. I think that so many people [00:40:00] go, To a job and they don't really like it and they do it, you know, they, they do it cuz they have to, they need a paycheck.

Um, but they can't wait to leave. You know, and they, they're not, there's no sort of mental sort of, Engagement, uh, that, that's, that has anything more than just, I'm there transactionally. You know what I mean? Um, and I, I, I'm just, it's cool to, for people to experience what we get to experience on the, on the patient provider side, uh, that, uh, you know, you get to be a.

Part of, from the, the front desk side, you know, where, where you're really helping them with their, with their injuries and, and getting them really, I mean, you're the gateway to a lot of that stuff, getting them in the office. And I think of it as like saving them from the other options that we know are just, frankly, a lot of 'em are not great.

Um, you know, and, and, uh, so, so anyway, I think it, it, it's a, it's somewhat of a. Challenging in position. I think it's the hardest one in the practice, but if you can, if you can ma, if you can master it and, and really manage it well, um, you can [00:41:00] change a lot of people's lives and it's a really cool thing to be aware of.

Yeah. I, I tell them,

Roger: uh, about the front, uh, I think verbatim. I'm like, Hey, no, no pressure, right? Like, your job is not to get people scheduled, right. No pressure. However, if there's somebody that we can help, the conversation that you have with them can determine whether or not they decide to actually help themselves or spend the rest of their life in pain.

No pressure though.

Danny: True. Yeah. That

Jess: was pretty mortifying the first time you said that to me.

Roger: Just like, because

Danny: it is, it's an extremely important

Roger: conversation, right? Like that's it. Like that, that you have that one chance. Mm-hmm. Right? To help somebody make a decision that's going to potentially, Their entire life.

Yeah. We work with a lot of people, right? Like I think just cash base in general. It's a lot of, well, I've already tried all these other things. I've been to 17 different PTs, four chiropractors, acupuncture, remote reiki. Like what? How does that work? Whatever, whatever it is. [00:42:00] Right. And uh, I've had surgery.

I've had two surgery. I've failed surgery. I can't get surgery. I don't want surgery. I don't know what else to do. And it's like they're either going to, this is it for them. And if we don't have a good conversation, that leads to them seeing the value of like why they should invest. In themselves and in their health.

Uh, if we have a poor conversation and they decide not to work with us because of that conversation, we're doing them a disservice just period. So, uh, us as providers, right, as uh, uh, businesses that are centered on helping people, if we're not really fucking good at having those conversations to. Um, help people make the decision to, you know, become our clients and work with us and, and get the outcome that they say they want.

Like, you're missing the boat, right? Like, you're doing them a disservice. This is something that you are, in my opinion, obligated to get really good at, to be able to help as many people as you can. If you say

Danny: you actually wanna help people. Yeah. Man, it's hard to follow that. That's, uh, [00:43:00] that's so spot on. I, I think that's probably a good place to, uh, to end it.

You guys can run it back and you can listen to that a couple times. Uh, Jess, I, I, uh, I, I, I do wanna leave it with this, like, is there, do you have any advice for anybody that's out there that is listening to this, that maybe they're, they are, you know, running a front desk that, that you'd like to give them that was like, you know, really helpful for you?

Any like, you know, little tips that, that seem to kinda help you pick up the position faster? Mm.

Jess: Um, off the cuff, uh, definitely block your. Um, I, I started this and I didn't block my day out and it was a disaster. So, seriously, like if you have a Google calendar, if you have an, I literally have my Google calendar and two different notebooks, but I make sure that my day is organized in Yeah.

Um, cuz if you don't block your day, you're gonna get nothing done. Um, but uh, yeah, that would. I think that's really my biggest piece of advice there.

Roger: I gave her one of the pt biz organizers, the planners, the

Danny: mastermind members. You like that thing, [00:44:00] huh? That's, uh, I love that thing. That's all Jared. That's, uh, yeah, that, that, that's, that's a great, um, way, if you like a paper planner, like that's a great way to keep yourself organized.

So, um, no, that's great advice. Uh, You know, Hey, look, Jess, Roger, thank you so much for your time today. This was great. Um, Roger, if, if, if somebody, you know, I wants to reach out and they're interested in the practice, maybe there's somebody in your area they wanna send your way, or, or they're interested in, uh, you know, maybe, you know, working with you guys, where can they go to find out more about the practice?

Yeah,

Roger: I mean, you guys can find us on, uh, on Instagram or Facebook. It's just at Move Athletics pt. Uh, the website is move athletics pt.com. Uh, you can send an email anything you guys have questions about to front desk, one [email protected]. Uh, if you wanna talk to me directly, my, this is doctor Dr.

[email protected] and, uh,

Danny: we'll go from. Cool, easy. Um, guys, again, thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I know this wasn't, wasn't planning to get just on here, [00:45:00] but I'm so glad we could get you on here. This was, was awesome and I'm glad we had a chance to, uh, yes. It's fun. You know, learn from you.

You shared a lot of really great stuff, so thank you so much. Oh good. Oh good. It worked out. No, it was great. This is, this is definitely one of my favorite ones I've done recently. So, uh, guys, thanks so much. I know you're busy. Thanks much for your time and, uh, as always, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.

Hey, real quick before you go, I just wanna say thank you so much for listening to this podcast, and I would love it if you got involved in the conversation. So this is a one way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to get you into the group that we have formed on Facebook. Our PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group has about 4,000 clinicians in there.

That are literally changing the face of our profession. I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connected with other clinicians all over the country. I do live trainings in there with Eve Gigi every single week. And we share resources that we don't share anywhere else outside that group.

So if you're serious about being a PT entrepreneur, a clinical rainmaker, head to that group. Get signed up. Go to facebook.com/groups/ptentrepreneur, or go to Facebook and just search for PT Entrepreneur. And we're gonna be the only group that pops up under that.

[00:46:00]