E516 | Megan Brown Re-Cast Interview

Today's episode is a re-casted interview I did with Megan Brown back in 2018. A lot of our older episodes no longer show in the podcast feed so I wanted to revisit them and give new listeners a chance to hear these. While listening to this episode, think about how much the profession has changed and evolved in such a short amount of time. Megan is our guest presenter at our upcoming Mastermind Live Event here in Atlanta! Enjoy!

• Developing buy-in with freelance employees
• Referring patients to other practitioners
• Using pilates, yoga, and barre to treat patients

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] So I was having a conversation with one of our staff members about documentation, and he had come over from a in-network practice that he was working at, and he was talking about just how long it would take him to document and click through and the workflow and how, just, how time consuming it was and how much easier it's been with the software that we use, which is PT everywhere.

And I know for us, we're very aware of sort of time leaks within our staff and our own schedules. And it's just one of the worst things you can do is just waste time on things when you could be doing them more efficiently. One thing for us is we have to document. It's something we need to do and you need to do it as efficiently as you possibly can because that's where you're gonna save a lot of your time.

We were seeing our staff members save upwards of an hour a day as far as cleaning up his documentation, making it more efficient. What if you got an hour of your day back just from documentation? What if all of your staff did the same thing? Highly recommend you take a look at PT everywhere.

It's been a huge time saver for us and really has made a big difference in our efficiency of our practice. You can check 'em [email protected]. I think you're gonna really like what they have to offer. [00:01:00] So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matt Mate, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's going on, guys? Dr. Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur podcast, and today we have another recast for you guys. So these are interviews that I did in the first a hundred episodes or so that we have with the PT Entrepreneur podcast, but only 250 of the episodes that we've done are currently available on Spotify or iTunes or wherever you listen to the podcast.

So I went back and I looked at some of the ones that we did and I really picked the ones that I thought were the most impactful and just [00:02:00] interesting interviews I think you can learn a lot from. And these are from years ago, by the way. So the Kelly strt interview that was released a few weeks ago, that was from 2000 s.

My wife Ashley her interview, I'm working with your spouse. That was from the very beginning of 2018. And Megan Brown, who is the one this week. This was from early in 2018 as well. So think about how much the profession has evolved and changed. Think about how many things are different now in comparison to, 2018.

It's massively different in many ways. But I wanna highlight Megan for a couple reasons. First of all, if you don't know who Megan Brown is, go check her out. She owns Mind The Map, Pilates and Alexandria, Virginia. She is an incredibly savvy, smart business owner. And, for me I look back on this as somebody that I think is.

An interview I had a chance to talk to her as someone that was, is really leading the charge as, as far as PTs being involved in health and wellness more, in, in exercise. And this more of a performance [00:03:00] based sort of approach that we definitely, have within the practice that we run as well as most of the people that we work with really fall within that as well.

And the other reason I wanted to highlight Megan was I think that she is one of the more approachable business owners. Very just personable, funny person and still actively involved in her business at a very high level. So I think she is a owner operator that has a lot to share. So much so that we actually invited her to be our guest presenter for our September Mastermind event in Atlanta.

And we're so excited for her to share her story and just her energy is great. I think you'll notice that from this podcast as well. So I wanna highlight Megan. I wanted to highlight it in this this recast. It's too good not to share again. And on this day actually, there was a terrible windstorm.

I dunno if you guys remember this, but this massive windstorm. I basically shut down everything on the East coast. So we had a little bit of audio stuff that popped up, but overall it turned out really well. So if you have any audio issues associated with this one, it's because there was a massive windstorm that was going on.

They basically shut down airports on the entire east coast, but we did sneak this interview in. So I hope you [00:04:00] enjoy it. I hope you gain a lot from what she has to share. And as always, thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you next.

What's up guys? Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur podcast and man, I, we're super lucky to get Dr. Megan Brown of mine, the mat Pilates and yoga out of Washington, DC to jump on this podcast. Cause she had a wind emergency today. Is that right? DC's getting pelted apparently,

Megan: yes it is. I had lots of trees down.

Danny: They had I, when I forget which hurricane it was, it came through Atlanta and just knocked a ton of trees down. That's a real that's really problematic, cause there's a ton of trees in the DC area. Yeah. We

Megan: had teachers had to call in and cancel. We had baby classes that we needed to cancel just for pure safety reasons.

Yeah. When you're dealing with special populations, you wanna make sure people are safe.

Danny: Totally. No. So we're lucky. And I'm very excited to talk to you. We actually got linked up by a mutual friend Jimmy McKay. Some of you may have, know him from the PT Pint, but he text me about you and he said, Hey I think that Megan would be a perfect person for you to talk to on the podcast.

[00:05:00] Let me link you guys up. So let me get a quick intro. So Megan's a physical therapist, she's a mom, which is cool. So you got her two kids at home with her. So big respect to that. Cause you're busy as hell, I'm sure, between business and the kids adjunct professor at Marymount University.

And she teaches business there, which is gonna be cool for, we'll get into that a little bit. And she's the owner and co-founder of Mind the Mat, Pilates and Yoga located in the Washington, DC area. And you have, I believe, two locations. Is that, Yes,

Megan: two locations and the original locations actually has three studios stacked right up on top of each other all the way.

Oh, wow. Yeah, so we, we grew very quickly and maybe we'll get into why, but sometimes with the appearances from the outside can make things successful. I'll just say that. Let's,

Danny: let's get into it, because what I would like to really hear is I think this is gonna be an interesting conversation because you've delved into something that maybe is considered non-traditional in terms of, it's like when you are in PT school, you think, okay, cool, I'm gonna see patients, or I'm gonna start [00:06:00] a practice and it's this and that, or whatever.

And for you now it's gone to the point where you guys have this it, it's more group based more fitness related business with some other revenue streams in there as well. I'd love to hear the origin story. Tell me about how mine, the mat started and where you guys are today.

Megan: Oh my goodness. That's it's amazing. When I look back, I never would've thought that I would be doing this right now. And it's been 10 years. This month is actually our 10 year anniversary since we formed the L C and the F it's exploded. So I'll start with that. I was in patient care. I st I started out as a neuro freak.

I loved neuro, I still do, I still, which is probably what got me to Pilates, but I was working in. Inpatient rehab doing stroke recovery, and it, as a baby, 27 year old I had pretty significant back pain and was already burned out after 18 months. Unfortunately because I really loved that job.

And I, it, that took me to other areas of PT when I was still [00:07:00] doing one-on-one patient care. So I went to home care, which I liked making my own schedule, but I, it really wasn't exciting therapy that I was doing for me at that time. And then I got into Pilates. And Pilates changed the entire way that I looked at the body that I looked at therapeutic exercise and the way that I treated patients.

And that actually brought me to outpatient orthopedics. And I was one of those students when I was in PT school. I said, I will never do orthopedics. And I dunno why. It just wasn't my thing. I just loved neuro I ended up in outpatient ortho, and my boss was just incredible. I gotta give a shout out to Tyrone Heitman.

He was really interested in Pilates and he allowed me to rent space at the clinic after hours. And there I was treating patients by day, but then teaching Pilates by night and I was able to collect the fees on my own. So I think I [00:08:00] charged, back then it was maybe 2004, I was charging $18 a class and my classes were full.

So I, I can't do quick math these days, but it was, 15 people in a class, $18 per person. And I was taking most of that, paying just a small nominal rental fee. So that really sparked my entrepreneurial juices. I just, I was thinking to myself, how could I. How can I not be tied up for eight hours but make this kind of money?

So in one hour I was making over $200, and so of course I was thinking, huh, here I am making $40 an hour versus $200 an hour, and how can I continue with that business? So then that brought me to opening my own practice with a few other PTs where I was doing Pilates with neuro. My, my absolute dream job was treating people who had strokes [00:09:00] on the Pilates reformer and all the other Pilates equipment.

And, but there was something that still was not, it wasn't exactly where I wanted to be. I was really getting more inspired by doing group exercise, mainly special populations. So that's where I started to get into the prenatal Pilates model, the post-pregnancy Pilates model where, people just didn't have access to this.

Even in my area of DC where you have a lot of professionals in that area And then honestly, mine, the mat fell in my lap. It was, we got set up by a mutual friend. I have a business partner who is a yoga teacher and massage therapist, and we got set up I didn't want to do it. People kept saying, no, you're doing this, you're doing this, you're going to be successful.

And It just blossomed from there. And the funny thing is, what I didn't have back then is this whole concept of people working for you. And I guess it just wasn't something that PTs were really, I don't [00:10:00] know inspired to think about. And I start, so we started hiring independent contractors to work at mine, the mat.

And so that's where this whole concept of making money in my sleep started where it was like, if you have to have employees in order to really make money. O otherwise it's just, it's you in that one-on-one patient care time.

Danny: Totally. What do they say if it's the hit by the bus test, right?

So if you were to hit, be hit by a bus and all the revenue that you generate goes away, you don't have a business, you have a job, right? So you may really like your job. And I think there's a lot of people that maybe that's all that they Aspire to want to do, right? It's the sort of lifestyle business, right?

They wanna see a certain amount of people, they wanna make a certain amount of money, and then they're really interested in something else. And but I agree with you, that was a big realization that we had to come to as well where you just get so busy that you almost don't have a choice, right?

And then once you get past that really difficult I feel like the first hire, the first the first practitioner hire was really hard. And then once [00:11:00] you get past that, it's almost God dang, how did I do this without anybody else? And then you almost become like over delegator, I don't wanna do anything.

I don't wanna do anything I don't like. And so that's real. That's really cool. Okay, so were you guys from where you started, you and your business partner to now you have two locations. How many employees do you have and are they, are the employees or still mainly independent contractors?

How is it set up?

Megan: So all of the teachers are independent contractors and we're very careful with our accountant on how we can legally stay within. Sure. What are the, what are those hard lines of independent contractor and employee and then all of our support staff, they are employees. So we have front desk staff that help with client accounts and help check people in, but we also have a salaried manager who is a full-time employee.

Yeah. And that model has really worked for us over the past 10 years. And the way that, especially in this. This industry the boutique fitness industry is working out in this area, is that, these independent contractors [00:12:00] work at several different places. They are, they tend to have their own LLCs so that they can bill and invoice us for their services.

And I have heard, however, that there are states that are I don't wanna use the term cracking down, but that's how I think it might my business mind on whether these independent contractors are indeed 10 99 income. So that's something that we constantly explore with our

Danny: accountant. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's state to state state by state dependent.

And it's definitely, it, it can make a big difference though when you look at payroll taxes and, I don't know if you're listening to this and you are not familiar with payroll taxes, and if you're an employee, your employer actually has to pay a pretty significant amount of money to have you as an employee where they pay into taxes for you as well as Medicare.

And that's just the cost of doing business. So by having in independent contractors, it's actually beneficial in certain ways for the business [00:13:00] owner because you can offset some of the burden of those taxes. Now, there's also pros and cons where potentially you have a little bit less control over what that employee does and if they're a contractor.

But for you guys, it sounds that's an the mixture you found that works really well. Have you had any issues with contractors versus employees or anything like that?

Megan: Yeah, so for example, in our business, it's when you have a product. Our product is our Pilates and yoga classes and bar, and you want to have.

People who represent your brand. And so you said it exactly you have less control over people who are 10 99 income. You can't demand what you would demand of your employees like following a specific employee handbook following specific policies. So for example, when we really need to have a meeting, we can't say this meeting is mandatory, but clearly there are times when we all need to get together to be on the same page and make sure that we're offering the same services to [00:14:00] everyone.

So that's one of the major challenges that we have. Other than that it's really great to have independent contractors because, we don't fall into that same issue with employees not really making the cut and needing to come up with a option to fire them or to ask for a resignation, which no one likes to do that.

I personally don't like to do that. But it's like this it's not working out. Thank you for trying maybe we'll try your services again in a, in another program. So it's easy for us and it's easy for them to change the relationship at any time.

Danny: So that's cool.

So size wise now, so how many people are we talking about that you guys are involved with mine, Matt?

Megan: Oh gosh. I feel like that's data I need to pull up. I, and I'm embarrassed, but I think at any time we have 60 people on our sublist, but we have about 30 to 35 instructors at one time.

And so that. Serves three studios in one location and one studio in [00:15:00] Arlington.

Danny: So that's a lot of people. So where, what have you found? It's relative, right? I guess compared to, PWC has, what, 50,000 employees and then, and then you know, us, we have there's five of us.

What's the, there, there's, that's a lot of people to to be able to try to get on the same page. So what have you guys found in terms of success with maintaining communication within your team?

Megan: Good old email tends to be the best. We've tried other tools like Basecamp that we've pulled some 10 99 or independent contractor people in, but email and keeping up with constant reminders of how the studio runs now, thank goodness we don't have a lot of turnover and we have people who've been with us for the entire 10 years we've been open.

We try to make it a very loving and friendly and safe environment for everyone to work in. It's anyone who walks in can feel this vibe that mine the mat has, and people wanna be a part of it. So we do, I think, a [00:16:00] good job at making people still feel like they're part of the company even though they're an independent contractor.

That is one of our biggest challenges is how do you continue to have people buy into the brand and represent the brand but at the same time honor and respect the fact that they're independent contractors and that they've been hired to do their independent and individual expertise. I would, I

Danny: would say So.

What services are offered at at mine Thema at this point?

Megan: Oh my gosh. So this is like not only. One of the best things about our studio and business, but it is also one of the most challenging is to actually communicate everything that we do, because I feel like we are super unique in this booming boutique fitness and that we offer everything for everyone.

And now when I say everyone, like newborn babies all the way to senior citizens. So we have specialized classes. Those can fall into [00:17:00] categories like therapeutic since we have a heavy therapeutic influence. Myself, I'm a physical therapist obviously, but we also have a few other PTs on staff. We even have a chiropractor who, she actually just moved, but I'm looking to hire another chiropractor.

We try to find people who have other professional licenses or degrees so that they can bring in their experience and their expertise. We truly do believe that exercise administration is a skill. It's like this whole thing that I'm preaching in the hot Pilates certification process is like it's not what you're doing in your exercise.

It's how you're doing that. It definitely benefits you. And so we really hone in on that. Specialized program that we have of prenatal, postpartum, therapeutic and fundamentals. So really making people feel like wherever they are in their lifespan, whether they are a CrossFitter who blew out their back or their shoulder, they can come to mind the mat and continue to rehabilitate that injury, [00:18:00] but get the benefits of Pilates or yoga.

So that's one model is we have that specialized area, but we don't wanna leave the generalists out, right? So we have just the people that want to come in and get after it. So this morning I taught a crazy hot Pilates class where I had all kinds of different fitness levels, but it was hard. So that's the group that comes in and they want a really good workout and they know if they come to mind the mat, that they're gonna get that high level quality from people who actually really know what they're doing.

They have that biomechanical skill and background, and they're delivering a product that's gonna make changes and help people meet their goals.

Danny: So are you Currently seeing patients at all or are you

Megan: I'm retired. Danny, is what I love to say. Great. Love to say I'm retired.

Danny: Look I think you get to a certain point and you, it sounds like where you guys are at, it would be a shame if you were still spending a good chunk of your time in patient care.

Not to say that, it's not something you're probably very good at [00:19:00] or that you enjoy, but for the skillset you have, being able to leverage that to empower all the people that work for you, you really have a lot more ability to you can help a lot more people have greater impact that way than if it was you were still tied up with people.

One, I think that's a really hard realization for practitioners to come to, and how hard was that? Or how easy was that? I guess maybe for you to say, you know what I can't do the treat patient care anymore. I need to focus on other things.

Megan: I will say, it, my mindset has completely transitioned to one of this morning I had 30 patients.

Exactly right. So I'll look at it as group exercise, and it is also something that I feel strongly about is completely empowering the physical therapy profession in the sense that. Imagine having a PT running all of these group fitness classes that are everywhere and being able I walked up to someone today and I was like, yeah, I can tell you're a runner, aren't you?

And this is every time I have someone new in my class they're usually a runner and [00:20:00] they're like how can you tell? And I'm like, I can tell you're glute is like super weak. So it's an opportunity for me to screen people and say, Hey, I've got this great practitioner out in Seven Corners.

Why don't you go see him? He's a specialist in a, B and Z. Or when I have my 16 postpartum patients, when they bring their babies, they are that I'm their first window to exercise. And thank God because. There's, there are mixed messages out there now on what people are supposed to do. If people are afraid of diastasis or they're being told to go back to doing everything that they were doing before.

But if they can come in and get, or be seen rather by a PT in that small window to say, Hey, let's do some really safe targeted movements. And oh, by the way, your diastasis is three fingers wide. I'm gonna go ahead and refer you to this amazing women's health therapist. So I feel like my role as a PT is actually stronger than ever.

And you said it, it's like I can [00:21:00] impact this wide net of people from elderly to, I even screen for Tarollis and Plagiocephaly where they may not see a healthcare practitioner for quite some time yet. I can come up to someone who has torticollis and say to the mom let me refer you to a great place that can nip this in the bud and you're gonna be fine.

So I, I almost see it as just a different way to administer patient care. I may not be on in that one-on-one model, but I can think back to nrh National Rehab Hospital where I was running a group from 10 to 11, and we would have. 10 people who had just recovered from a stroke in, in one setting. And so it's that same model.

And so I just, it just, I'm not billing insurances, I'll tell you that. Yeah. Which

Danny: is a relief. Sure. But you're right. And all of our PTs, like we it's something that we, we [00:22:00] heavily recommend that they coach and when they come on to work with us they have to start coaching somewhere.

Oh, good. We want them to work with groups like this. Something that when I started in the Army we're taking a job where I was in charge of this kind of human performance element of this battalion or of this brigade. I had to get out and in front of, 40 to 50 people that didn't really, don't know shit about their body.

They're just they're motor morons in many cases. And try to teach 'em all how to run, and or teach 'em how to deadlift. And I think it's very important as a practitioner, To learn how to use that skillset of verbal queuing and utilizing your skillset in a group. Because like you said, the impact that we have on 50 people versus one is pretty profound.

And maybe not all those people are appropriate to come in and see us one-on-one, and some of them might be right. And it's a really good way for us to triage that out. And I really can't think of a better profession in terms of the things that are taught in a structured manner that would, would fall into that.

Especially with the depth of knowledge with, like you said, biomechanics and also, injuries. And should they be seen, should they not? Is that a waste of [00:23:00] their time? Is it not? Is we can really be beneficial for people in that way? So do you guys almost view yourself as that hands off but still practitioner role and you're the gatekeeper to send them other.

Megan: Oh I feel that way super strongly. In fact I do have some relationships with other PTs in the area. They know about me even if we haven't met. And they can have a patient who is full on in, in their care, but feel confident, Hey, go see Megan Brown and do her runners clinic that she offers, once a quarter.

And I feel confident as your physical therapist that you are not gonna mess up all the good work that we've done. Not to say that there aren't other skilled people there, but a as it's our profession. We're getting out there more and more, but especially amongst ourselves, I can trust, like if I wanted to send someone to you, I could be like, okay, she's gonna be in good hands with Danny because he knows exactly where I'm coming from with my plan of

Danny: care.

I think it's challenging and we've run the same [00:24:00] problem where, we have people that, the g the goal is not physical therapy, right? The goal is there's a roadblock, there's an injury that's stopping me from being able to achieve my health and wellness goal, which for most people is the same thing.

They want to look a little bit better, they wanna not have as much pain. They wanna move better. They wanna be able to interact with their family and, not feel like it's a burden to get down the ground to play with their kid or their grandkid. There's, it's a very sim similar goals.

And what we tend to do is get people. To a point where, they're good and they're, they're pain free. They're back to moving a lot better. But then it's this handoff to some sort of strength and conditioning program of for most people, and that might be one-on-one, that might be group it might be digital.

And what we actually have been very frustrated in certain cases with the fact that there's a lot of poor programming that's out there. There's a lot of programming. A monkey could write because it makes you feel like you, you did something hard, but it, there's no there, there's no reason for that.

If you wanna make somebody feel like they did something hard, just make 'em do burpees until they feel like they're gonna puke. But that doesn't mean [00:25:00] that they got a well-rounded, multi-directional training plan. That's something that we've been a bit frustrated with and have had to recently start to solve digitally ourself and give people a platform of what they should do.

But a group like what you guys have, I just don't see too much of that around from, where I'm at. But I could see where it'd be a huge, fit for practitioners in particular. So do you see a lot of referrals that come your way from chiropractors, massage therapists, physical therapists in.

Megan: That's hard to track. We can definitely do that on the business backend. Usually when people create an account you can say, where did you come from? But most of the time, and this is obviously the drawback to this model, is we don't have that one-on-one patient time where we can interview and find out so who brought you here?

It's usually after we establish a relationship over months or maybe even years that it comes out oh yes, my massage therapist told me about you guys. But we do quite a bit of marketing and AdWords that, that tend to target populations that may [00:26:00] be under care of physicians, physical therapists, chiropractors, but just in establishing relationships locally.

We are such a wellness community. Anyway, we're, we live in Delray, in Alexandria, Virginia. We actually. Coined the term. Ray, because there are so many wellness practitioners here and we just feed off of each other. There are tons of other exercise studios within blocks of me, but for some reason we all just work together.

But you, I wanna touch on something because you you mentioned how there's a lot out. And I wanted to say that this is my crusade of that, just because people think it's hard, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is the right movement system for you. And I will say that we've struggled we've struggled recently with sales because there are certain programs that have popped up around here, certain franchise programs that have popped up that people are truly just drawn into.

And I'm trying to [00:27:00] understand what the draw is, but of course, as PTs and you mentioned like this multi-dimensional type movement it's, This is a crusade I feel like all of us PTs can get on board with, is to really get people to understand smart exercise and smart workouts as opposed to just doing something because it's

Danny: difficult.

Oh, totally. We have a very strict standard of who we send people to. We will not refer, whether it be, typically you think referring to practitioners, maybe physicians or whatever it might be, but most of the people that we see, we end up sending off to some sort of strain conditioning professional of some kind, whether it be group or individual.

But we have to meet with those people first. We'll vet 'em. And if they can't describe to us what their programming look looks and that involves, frontal, sagittal, transverse plane, ecentric Yeah. Concentric and isometric triassic approach to training the body and understand what, how breathing affects that.

We won't even think about sending 'em their way. So it narrows it down quite a bit, but Sure. They say you get a hundred percent of the blame for a bad referral and 50% of the credit for a good [00:28:00] one. So we're very picky about that. And maybe, like what you guys have developed that is a role that we should really look at as physical therapists, because you're right, you don't have to mess with insurance.

And we don't, we're a hundred percent cash cash based, but it's a shitload easier to have that conversation about something that you couldn't even get insurance to pay for anyway. A health and wellness program versus physical therapy. There's this stigma of, oh, I want my insurance to cover it.

You have a $10,000 deductible, so it doesn't matter what you want, like you're out of pocket no matter where you go. For you, how's that conversation been, know with people coming in and that sales cycle that you have, like what have you found that that works really well for you to continue to have those people come back and have really solid, recurring kind of revenue from people you can.

Megan: Probably the diversity of programming that we offer. Again, I mentioned the whole life cycle where it's, we get a lot of new people just because they heard about us from a prenatal exercise standpoint. When they Google prenatal yoga, we come up first prenatal Pilates, we come up [00:29:00] first and we've had people from all over the place.

So a lot of times people will find us in that specific life stage or. Specific time in their life where they need specialized exercise and we hook them from there because, and when I say hook, I say that really because we have a specific brand feel, we have a vibe in our studio where it's very welcoming and we make people feel like they can truly do anything because we have so much to offer.

But then we have this whole I call them almost like the fitness hoppers, right? Where the, you have people that have a package over here and they have a package over there and they know what we offer and they know that we're always gonna be there for them, but there may be not tied into it as much as some of our other members.

So what we try to do is continue to offer diverse programming from hot yoga to gentle deep stretch, to, I teach a crazy Pilates [00:30:00] bootcamp on Saturday mornings all the way to my really specialized prenatal Pilates class on Monday nights. So we constantly pitch that we. Not only something for everyone, but something for every body.

Like whatever your body needs that day, we have a class for it. And I think that really resonates in this true fitness boutique type boom that's going on right now where what we're seeing are these models of the same product. So I'll just give a bar studio for example. They offer bar, they're, they don't really stray too much from that product.

And not only do we offer bar, but we offer mommy and baby bar. We offer therapeutic Pilates right after it. So there's, there are constantly windows of opportunity for people who need some kind of movement. And I think that's what sets us apart from everyone else. So at

Danny: this point how much of your time how many hours per week are spent actually teaching [00:31:00] classes and actually working in the business?

Not necessarily on it. This is a

Megan: really good question, Danny, because this tends to ebb and flow. So right now I just gave up a very specific class, a very specialized class. So I'm down to five classes a week, and as I get older I see my role changing in doing that group exercise model. And I see myself moving more into mentoring people to teach.

And that's my role, I think in a five year goal. But what I can't let go is what it feels like to touch 30 people in an hour. And that, that really is what. Gives me that high, right of I, I love what I do now, as as being a small business owner, stuff happens, right? So there's the day-to-day, like today, the wind emergency, like who could plan for that?

So there, there are always going to be things that come up. And so I would say on [00:32:00] average right now, I'm not as busy as I was maybe about a month ago. So on average, probably this week I've spent at least 10 hours doing the business side of things. But then again, that what counts in that category is networking.

Speaking with instructors going out and marketing yourself. And marketing yourself literally in this neighborhood could be me sitting at a big, busy coffee shop having coffee with a friend, right? I'm constantly trying to get out there in the community and be present and work with my neighborhood and do community events.

So I count all of that as my role, as the Somewhat. I call myself, I guess legally I'm the c e o, but really I'm more of this outreach person at mine, the mat. And so that, that takes quite

Danny: a bit of time. I think it's also a lot easier to be really motivated and on your game to do five.

Classes a week versus five in a day. I've, I, oh gosh, I've taught a lot of different, classes in particular, just a lot of [00:33:00] CrossFit coaching earlier in, in my career. And, it's fun when you can do it as a hobby, but when you have to do it over and over again, that same day, it starts to get very monotonous.

For you it probably makes you look forward to that more so than anything. And that, and also at this point, if you're at a stage where you can say, I choose to do this because I want to, not, I have to because I've gotta keep the lights on, man, that's a much that's a much better place to be.

And from a, just a kind, from a stress management standpoint, that's, that just sounds awesome. So hopefully you guys are listening to this and the fact that, you've been able to take yourself outta your business and then decide how much you actually. Want to do that, that, skill, whether it be one-on-one work with somebody or group that's where you want to end up getting to.

How long did it take for you to get to the point where you really could dictate okay, I don't even want to teach this many classes per week.

Megan: I think it was pretty early on because we had the luxury of so many talented instructors in this area that we could really hone in and have [00:34:00] them be on board and focus on what our brand was.

We're lucky. We're lucky that we have amazing. Instructors and support staff. So pretty early on and my role in the beginning as we would add programming would be that I would start a class and then train someone else and get them ready to take it over. So that model worked very well as we continued to add programs.

For example, hot Pilates was not always a thing, and we just recently started that in 2013, so we'd been open for five years before we even started it. And then as soon as we added that program, man our sales just went through the roof. So I couldn't be at the studio teaching with, to meet the demand.

I just did could not have that lifestyle. And when I teach a class for an hour, I put absolutely everything I have into it to the point where there's no way I can teach a class after that. So I dunno how people do doubles or triples because I just, that's for me for like how [00:35:00] I teach my classes.

I just I couldn't do it. But that model of really buttering someone else up and getting them ready to take over those time slots helped. And the more I can have people come in and observe how I do things and teach them that whole hot Pilate style, the more people understand, oh, I, it, I don't have to go to Megan's class.

I can go to Katie's class. I say Katie cuz she just passed her test today. I'm so excited. It's because people have gone through these programs, they trust, when I say people, the clients. The the members they trust, oh, she went through Megan's training, so I know I'm gonna get a good experience if I go to her class.

So that model has allowed me to step back and get into more of the development phase of mine at, and I would not have been able to do all the work involved in that certification program of Hot Pilates if I couldn't free myself up from being at the studio all the time. It just it couldn't happen given the [00:36:00] fact that.

Two little boys and other responsibilities in the neighborhood, et cetera. So hopefully a, as people listen to this, they can be inspired that it doesn't always have to be you can find really good people who are buying into your model and understand that your product is important and they want to live up to that brand.

Danny: You bring up Hot Pilates, right? So it's h a w t by the way, if you guys are wanna look us up certification that that you put together. And tell me a little bit about that. So what was the process of developing that and then what type of businesses after you like, like from a monetization standpoint, like obviously if it's gonna take up that much of your time, you wanna be able to make it worth your time.

So explain what that process was like and what it looks like today.

Megan: So it's funny because Pilates. Pilates is a method and it's a system, and it's a system that has worked for me, not only from the individual one-on-one patient care standpoint, but also from how I address a group and exercise needs.

[00:37:00] So I can't say that I've stayed true to traditional Pilates. And that's how this whole hot Pilates concept came into play. Not only did we have a an H O T studio, we have this hot studio with amazing heat and humidity and ventilation and all that. But also, working out sucks. Some people really love to work out, but it's hard.

And in, in that room it is hot, it is sweaty. People smell, there is sweat going everywhere. So you know what? You might as well make it fun, right? Like, why would anyone volunteer to exercise unless it's fun? So that's my whole model is we have to do it. Studies say, in order to live long, we need to exercise.

So it might as well be something that we enjoy and actually look forward to. So HOT is actually an acronym back in, I believe it's the thirties, which is having a wonderful time. So it's not only that [00:38:00] AC acronym of, yeah, you're coming to Hot Pilates, you're gonna have a blast. But it's also hot in the sense that yes, temperature-wise, it's hot in that room, but it doesn't have to be hot, can mean a ton of things.

So it's in my mind as a physical therapist, it's what are the latest moves based on what latest research and are we really. Delivering high quality, hot exercise to these people that wanna come in and really get cutting edge instruction. And so that's the whole model behind that. And I think really people really buy into it once they see what it does for them and how they feel after class.

And today I was blasting Coldplay and Dr. Dre and Beyonce because let's, we're doing serious work, but let's not take ourselves too seriously, right? And so I think it just becomes this addiction somewhat like, soul Cycle's model. Is it? It should be joyous, right? So come and have a party on a bike.[00:39:00]

And so that's how it started and it really just blew up. Like we had some studio space that we needed to fill and we started filling it with hot FL classes. And that really boosted our sales

Danny: now from, there's the certification. Correct. So now you like teach other people how to do the same method.

Megan: Yeah. So that started because I would have people who were going through Very popular and well known Pilates certification companies. So a few that I can think of are balanced body. We have quite a few instructors. I really like their product. My own is Polestar, which was started by a physical therapist down in Miami, Brent Anderson, and I was getting people from reputable Pilates mat certifications and they were coming to me asking to get their hours.

So just a little background on how you get certified in Pilates as you go through the didactic and lecture portion and then you go through how to learn the [00:40:00] exercises, but then you're left on your own to go get all of these hours, which. Student teaching hours, observation hours practical hours where you are actually doing the moves and self-study hours were what I would call them.

And so people were calling me up and saying, Hey, I wanna work with you. But I didn't really have a model for it. So I would say, okay, come work with me. I'm gonna work with you for free if you teach with me. And for years, that model worked. In fact, we still have teachers who trained with me and are teaching with us today, even after eight years.

So that's the model that worked for me for a while. And then, I had people literally coming to me and saying, I want you to teach me Pilates. And I would just sigh and say, okay, I don't really have a formal training program. I can work with you. If you go to say, balanced Bodies MAT program or Poll Stars mat, those are the two that I usually recommend.

And then they would come back to me and I would be like, okay, let's do it this way. It's almost as if not, [00:41:00] like I'm saying that their model isn't good. I think they're highly reputable. It's just that my hot Pilates model was different. And so they would come to me and be like, okay, let's change all of this and let's do it this way.

And they were like, wow. Have you ever thought about teaching that? And so once I freed myself, like we were talking about before, freed myself from some other responsibilities, I literally sat down and it was because people had said, I want you to teach me. And if I hadn't had people push me and push me that they needed me, it's really how I felt.

I wouldn't have actually sat down and done the work. And the work is hard. You have to come up with your model. I came up with a framework of how to teach specific exercises. In fact, that framework is what I presented. Cindy, sorry, that's my computer telling me what time it was. It's okay. I presented that framework at C S M.

So I told you I'd never been there before. And the first time I was there, I had someone from Marymount University, sky Donovan, the director, believe in me and believe in that framework and [00:42:00] say, Hey, let's put this out there to PT schools and maybe we can adopt this model of therapeutic exercise. So in my training, There's a framework of breaking down exercises that's different from anything out there.

And how to cue. There's a specific queuing system that I use called vital. And vital, if you stick with that queuing system really gives people teachers, gives teachers the skillset of how to teach exercise, and that's where this whole how versus the what comes in, right? So like I always use the example of dead bug dead bugg.

You could just have them in hook lying and say, okay, now just march your legs and then add opposite arms. Okay, so just march and breathe. But that's the what? The how would be okay, maintain a neutral pelvis and draw your lower belly in and wide. Oh, don't do a posterior pelvic till right. Keep that neutral pelvis.

Now drag your knee up on the inhale and on the exhale, let's switch. [00:43:00] So you're really taking what those tendencies are, what in patients, how their what their strategy is, what their compensations are, and that's where you're queuing, you're focusing your cues on those specific tendencies. And so that, that whole concept is woven through the framework.

And I wouldn't have been able to really sit down and organize that, because honestly, I am the most disorganized person I think anyone's ever met. But having the time to sit down and really put that in a model so that people could learn it, that was huge for me. That was worth, I got to that point.

Now, It should be. The easy part is marketing it, right? So I've had two classes already. I've graduated two classes, and that is how, once you've graduated two classes, then you can go through that certification process through Pilates. And then once I'm totally there, then it's let's put it out there in the world.

So

Danny: that, so Marymount now teaching at Marymount, now

Megan: I'm teaching at Marymount just this semester is my first semester. I have been [00:44:00] adjunct faculty there in the past. They have a problem-based learning method that they called tutorial. And so I used to lead these small group classes where people would analyze cases and learn that way.

And so now I'm actually, I actually have my own class, which is called PT as a

Danny: manager. So what are you teaching these kids? Because I think that, There's theory and then there's what like true entrepreneurial experiences, which is just frankly is you might as well just have a student come to the front of the class and then you punch 'em in the face and then you say, this is being an entrepreneur.

So you wanna learn more. Exactly.

Megan: My goal with this class is to inspire them. And I, the first thing I said to them that first day was, anyone can write a business plan, right? Like I could pull up a template, I bet you anything. I could find a yoga studio, [00:45:00] business plan on the internet. I'm sure there's one out there. So I keep saying to them, anyone can write a business plan.

And the reason I bring that up is because that's their big project. That they have to do. That's always been part of the project of PT as a manager, is at the end of the semester, they present their mock business and their business plan. So they've all gotta go through that process. So I said, anyone here, all of you, you're gonna get an A because why?

Because anyone can write a business plan. But what makes a business successful is really understanding why you're doing something. And so we've gone through this whole process, the first several weeks of finding your why the why behind what you do. And in the beginning, people would raise their hands and say I do this because I wanna help people.

And I'm like, no, that's what you do. That's how you do it. But why are you doing this? Really figure out why you even applied to PT school, why you got here. It's not just to be a pt. That's how you do it, right? Why are [00:46:00] you here? And so them going through that process, I think has really sparked this out of the box thinking in fact, we've, I've had questions from the beginning as they're starting their mock businesses.

There's one guy who wants to start a clinic with another physical therapist upon graduation. And so he always comes up to me and asks these great questions. So for his mock business, he's do you know what the practice act is for nutrition? How much nutrition can we practice? And I just looked at him kind of cross-eyed and I was like I don't know the answer to that, but why wouldn't you just hire a nutritionist?

And he had this look on his face like, Wow, I can hire someone. I'm like, yes, you're the boss. You can hire a nutritionist to come in and do nutritional counseling and be a part of your wellness program. And it was like his mind exploded right in front of me. And so something's happening here. I don't know where PTs are thinking, I'm gonna go into the office, [00:47:00] I'm going to clock in.

I am going to treat two patients per hour, and then I'm going to leave. And that's my role as a physical. And so my job I feel this semester is how can we get them to push the limits of physical therapy because we re that now is the time to push the limits of PT and use our degree and our licenses. So degree and licenses

Danny: in a different way.

I love that. I think that yeah the business plan stuff is it's, I wouldn't, I didn't have a business plan when I started my practice. I just, I knew I had, I needed two months to replace the income I had in the military because I had two small kids and I didn't wanna work for somebody else.

And that was it. And it was just figure it out. And I think what would be interesting for the students, especially because they're probably a lot more savvy with tech and social media than you and I might be, is, I would love to see students make some money while they're in school.

In fact, one of the last podcasts I did it'll come out right before the week before [00:48:00] this one. Josh Jeffrey. This is a really, cool story. This is a current PT student at University of South Carolina and he has a remote programming business where he programs for athletes, whether they be, competitive, functional fitness athletes or people are just trying to be healthier.

And not only does he do that, but he has three or four other coaches that work for him. And, not only is it offsetting his student loans, It's offsetting his student loans and he ma he, he still makes, a good income while he's going to school. And I just think that you couldn't have done that, 20, 30 years ago.

There's, I don't think it was possible, I would challenge your students to try to think of how can they solve a problem digitally and how can they do it before they even graduate? Not a business plan, but an actual freaking business, a real business that you could do and they could scale and it's, remote and they can affect a lot more people that way.

So I, I just I feel like what they're learning in school is changing and people like yourself that are teaching what you are, that's what's needed. [00:49:00] I

Megan: hope so, and I, I'm just teaching from my experience of figuring it out on my own. Again, it's been 10 years, I had zero business experience, but I made a lot of mistakes and so teaching them those mistakes.

For example, on my class on Wednesday, we were talking about finding your. To rent. Who's your target market, where do you wanna be, what's your competition? And some of the things no one ever told me, even from writing a business plan, which actually I did not write a business plan. I just figured it out.

Was like dealing with the county or the CI or the city with zoning. Don't, do not sign a lease. Until you have checked with city and zoning, because your landlord will tell you one thing and then you'll try to get your occupancy license or your business license and you'll have to pay an extra of $5,000 to get it rezoned.

And that's even going through what you think are the normal steps. And bringing in even the mistakes that I made over the [00:50:00] years, I think can be super helpful. But also what is the story? Where did the inspiration come from? Why did it develop this way? And how can I inspire these students to do exactly what they wanna do so that they're not burnt out at 27 like I was?

Danny: I don't know any. Successful business owner that got it all right on the first try. It's just, it just doesn't happen. And if it does, that's probably because they were given everything, or they inherited their family's successful business or some to that effect. If you want to, if you wanna hear a really interesting story about a big company that almost went out of business a ton of times, reads Shoe Dog, the Phil Knight story about Nike that, Nike.

I'm surprised they're around reading that book, I was like, damn, Phil Knight, you went outside of business a dozen times in this book alone. So I think that the fact that you're able to relate the mistakes is, it's so relatable. It's it's so important to hear that, right? Versus all these home runs of, oh, I make this much revenue and posturing and positioning about how fucking cool we are, whatever.

But [00:51:00] no. How about the fact that if you don't know what it's like to lose money in your business if you don't know what that feeling is like, where you gotta double down and make it happen and bust your ass it's hard to really understand and appreciate what you're able to build and where you're at now and step back and have a lot of financial freedom and time freedom.

And really that's probably the more important thing is for you to be able to get your time back with two kids and still do the things that you like. What a life of significance you've created versus a life of burnout that a lot of people end up heading towards. Totally.

Megan: Totally. And I think we've all been there, right?

We've all felt that, and it's high in our profession. And so if we can inspire students to continue to chase their dreams because yes, they think their dream is to be a pt, right? Yeah. You got into school, right? Which is hard. So they're, yeah. So the pt, it's gonna happen. I wish that I'd had this mindset of, no, this is just the beginning.

I didn't just reach my goal. This is just the beginning and it's, we're only going up from there.

Danny: You do have a super cool new website I wanted to bring up [00:52:00] from a personal branding standpoint. It's Dr. Megan Brown pt.com. It looks really good, by the way whoever whoever did this did a really good job on it.

So explain to me why, you felt like it was important for you to have this personal brand website.

Megan: It's funny because I didn't know that I needed it until my life slash business coach. I highly

Danny: recommend that. Oh my gosh, I can agree more.

Megan: Oh, good. Gosh. That's a whole nother podcast.

She really pushed me, and when I say push is because I was a little reluctant to do this, so she encouraged me, I should say, to brand myself. Because if I were to meet people and I would say, yes, I'm Megan from Mind the Mat. If you go to mine, the mat, you can see me in a few places, but you really don't get a feel for everything that I'm up to.

So this whole Megan Brown branded. Website helps people understand, okay, this is what Megan does. Megan does business. So here's mine, the mat. So instead of me being [00:53:00] undermine the mat in this model mine, the mat is under me. So it's Megan Brown is the big umbrella. And then, oh, this is what I'm up to with mine, the mat, this, these are studio programs.

Oh, by the way, here's this hot Pilates training that I just created that I've graduated two full classes in. And oh, by the way, I also speak at universities. Right now I'm teaching PT as a manager at Marymount. And oh, by the way, you don't live in this area. Look, I have these online classes. Here's my hot Pilates class.

Here's my Pilates bootcamp class. You will feel like you are. In the studio back row, almost like a voy. I have had people tell me, oh, sometimes I just watch your classes just to see what you guys are doing. But the goal is to reach for people and hopefully with some skilled exercise programs so that they're really getting quality exercise that can uplift their lives, not just prevent injury.

And prolonged life, but also just to uplift people. This

Danny: is great. This I love that[00:54:00] you ha you have a personal brand site that you're reaching people digitally, that you're teaching, that you're, teaching a certification course. You got a lot of stuff going on. It's super cool to see that.

And even just one of these kind of side directions, if you wanna say that, away from patient care. If you're listening to this as a pt it's totally doable. We've talked to people over a dozen people at, on the podcast currently that are doing multiple things. If you had one piece of advice for, let's say a young PT or a student listening to this that, you would give them, if they're in the beginnings of their kind of entrepreneurial journey, what would it be?

Megan: I think that everyone has maybe back in their brain exactly what they want to. What is your perfect world scenario? But then you also on the other side have to think, okay, I have student loans I need to make, I need to get a job and I need a salary, and I also need healthcare. I understand that. So do those things, right?

Get out in the field. Go into every single area of PT that you can, inpatient, home care, outpatient. It's fine to jump around. It [00:55:00] is totally fine if you want that experience. But always look at what is the why behind what you're doing? Why are you doing this? And what I found out for me, I didn't know this, is that I just really wanted to connect with people.

That's why I do it. And the way that I do it is through my Pilates classes and my physical therapy background. So if people really understand why they're doing what they're doing, that will actually help them focus on what their true dream is in this profession. And I truly believe this, and I can tell you, do you do too?

This degree and this license opens up so many more doors than doing one-on-one care and billing insurances. That, that to me seems like we have been placed in a box. We have a total horizon that we have not even tapped into. We have not tapped into it. And so if people can understand our profession from that vantage point, like looking at the horizon of what the [00:56:00] possibilities are for our profession, I think that is only gonna inspire students and brand new PTs to continue to work towards what they really wanna be

Danny: doing.

Well said, this is great. You got if you're not fired up about, the profession at this point, then I don't know what's gonna get you there. Megan, this is this has been awesome. I really appreciate your time. I know how busy you are and you got a lot of different things going on.

Thank you to, to our mutual friend Jimmy. Hopefully you're listening to this as well. And thanks, Jimmy. Thanks for connecting us. Yeah, Jimmy's the man. What a cool dude, right? God, it's, I just loved, sitting down and chatting with him and go figure. Blowing up in different podcasts who, I don't even know how many he has now.

Three, maybe four. Oh gosh, so many.

Megan: Over, we were drinking old fashions last weekend together and we were exchanging ideas. I, when I get with that guy, it's like we can't, the ideas, this idea explosion, that's what happens. And especially over an old fashioned idea explosion.

Danny: I totally agree.

You need some, like a third person that's some sort of integrator to be sitting there drinking an [00:57:00] old fashioned, taking notes on how to structure everything. I like that job. We're hiring. Would you like to, that's not me. I know. I know what my strengths are and I'd be sitting right there with you guys being all, I'd be geeking out on potential things.

I need my wife to be there cuz she's a studded organization. And she'd be like, okay, that's a dumb idea. Let's go with this.

Megan: Go. Yeah let's have her, the three of us. And you know what? My husband can sit with us too and just

Danny: drink. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. He sure. Yeah. He'll just drink.

That's fine. This is great. Okay, thank you so much for your time guys, again, thanks for listening to the Pizza Entrepreneur podcast. And then Megan, please take a look at her personal brand site. If one quick thing, if they, if anybody wants to reach out to you directly, if they have a question or anything like where can they.

Sure.

Megan: There is a contact form on my website, so if you go to Dr. Megan Brown, pt a about, you can contact me directly through the site. I am building followers on Instagram. We older people. I'm in my early forties. We're a little late to Instagram. But there are a lot of famous people out there, and that's a great medium for PTs.

My handle is at Dr. Megan Brown. You can find me [00:58:00] there. And also you could find, you could email me, megan m meg mind them com.

Danny: Awesome guys. Hit her up. Business knowledge for sure. So cool to be able to pick your brain a little bit. And once again, thanks so much for jumping on the podcast

Megan: today.

Thanks Danny, especially everything that you do for this profession and getting us out there, so I appreciate you as well. Thank you. No,

Danny: absolutely. Thank you so much. All right. Guys, thanks for listening and take care.

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