E434 | Cash PT Rockstar Ziad Dahdul

What is up, everyone? This week, I am joined by one of my favorite Mastermind members that we get a chance to work with and he is Ziad Dahdul! Ziad grew up in Southern California playing basketball and baseball competitively. His passion for sports is what drove him to become a physical therapist and work with athletes of all types. 

He's worked with local high school and collegiate teams on the importance of injury prevention and taking a proactive approach to health.

As a physical therapist, he has experience working in basketball, baseball, football, softball, soccer, tennis, and golf. He's also worked extensively with runners and barbell athletes.

Ziad has a passion for working with those rehabbing from ACL reconstructions and overhead athletes. He has researched and worked extensively with high school and college athletes post ACL reconstruction, allowing them to return to their sports at the highest level. He has also worked with overhead athletes (baseball/softball, swimming, volleyball) from the youth to professional levels. Enjoy!

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] All right, so you're just getting started and you're thinking to yourself, man, I'm just gonna use Google Suite to manage my cash-based practice as I get going, look, I did the same thing, and here's what I can tell you. When I finally had to switch over, it was a huge pain in my butt to try to move all the notes and all of the documentation that I had over to another platform so I could stay compliant.

Do yourself a favor. Start with a platform that you can scale with that makes you look more credible. When you're trying to book people on Google calendars, come on guys. That's not what a real business does. A real business has something that actually helps support it on the backend and it is branded to you.

It looks like your company. Check out PT everywhere. If you're just getting started, they're doing something really cool. For cash-based practices, and I really love this. We're we're one of the features that they're doing. If you're new, they actually will charge you less. As you're getting started and as you grow your membership, your actual dues each month for the platform, it goes up with your practice growing so you can actually save money upfront if you're just getting started, but yet have a platform that you can grow into.

I think it's amazing. It's the only company I know of that's doing that [00:01:00] and go figure. It's owned by a cash-based practice owner, which we love as well. So guys, head over to pt everywhere.com, check out what they're doing. If you're just getting started, I highly recommend you check. So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matte, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's up guys? Dr. Danny here with Zia Dul, who is one of my favorite people to pronounce her last name. Uh, every time I do it, I feel like I'm announcing a WWF wrestler. Uh, but, uh, z is, uh, fortunate enough to, uh, to be able to jump on, on a call with us on, and I'm super excited to chat with him and catch up.

One of my favorite Mastermind members we get a chance to work with, uh, he's stuck in LA [00:02:00] traffic. It's a real thing, huh? It's back.

Ziad: It is. Yeah. That's the, that was the one positive about Covid was that traffic was unbelievable. And then now we're just like right back to where we were, if not worse.

Danny: Right.

Yeah. No, I, I, I feel like Atlanta's the same way. It was really strange to see, um, Just no traffic. And then all of a sudden it is just a sign of, uh, return to normalcy, which in some ways is really positive, in other ways is, uh, frustrating. Cause I think people have also like, maybe aren't as as patient with it as they used to be cuz they're yeah, they're, they're not used to it, you know?

Uh, so anyway, uh, we're excited to catch back up. The last time we chat on the podcast was May of 2020. Man, what a difference. Um, From then until now, right? A little over a year. Uh, if you guys wanna learn a little more about Z's backstory, um, head to, uh, to add to Pete Entrepreneur podcast, episode 306. Um, that's his fir, his first podcast with us.

Um, but d owns Ignite Physio, which is in LaHabra and Costa Mesa. You guys have. Some [00:03:00] cool names of cities, man, as I was looking this up, so two locations, he's killing it. We're gonna talk about growth today. Dodgers fan, they're doing well. Uh, so you got that going for you, although I think it are the giants ahead of them, is that right?

Giants

Ziad: are up by two games right now and apparently if I go to games, they don't win. Cause I went on Friday and they lost, so it's not a good sign.

Danny: Yeah, ma'am. Maybe stay away for the, the, the, the luck factor. But, um, here's what we're gonna do today. I, this is a, it is cool opportunity to talk about growth, talk about, um, developing and establishing your presence in a niche.

Uh, if you guys are interested in the A C L niche, this is gonna be a really good one for you because, you know, Z has done such a good job of that, both locally as well as, uh, brick and mortar. But, um, here's what I wanna start with, man. You've had a lot of growth, uh, you know, over the. Year in particular, you won our v MVP belt, uh, not this time before, the time before that.

Uh, so you got to, you got the belt to prove it. But, um, tell me a little bit about the growth you've seen over the last, the last year. Kind of tell us where your business was at in May and where, where it's at now. [00:04:00]

Ziad: Yeah. Last time we talked, so I was still a solo provider, um, you know, working a ton of hours, but, you know, growing slowly, little by little and a lot of it was just kind of word of mouth and being able to.

To bring in people, like from the two gym communities that we're in, in addition to like some people through digital, digital, um, avenues as well, like on Instagram and stuff like that. But, um, it was just me and an office manager at that time. And, um, and she was about part-time as well. Um, and as kind of the rest of the year went on, like, you know, that pandemic obviously affected us, but I think we had a, a luxury and a benefit with the, you know, being performance therapist and doing things the way we.

And we're one-on-one. And I think a lot of people felt a lot more comfortable being in a one-on-one environment where you can control the environment around you and not worry about seven to 10 other people in the clinic at the same time. So, uh, we had people come back pretty quick cuz at the end of the day people don't stop having pain just cuz there's a global pandemic.

Right. You know, like, so, so we ended up that when June and July rolled around, like we hit a dip for a couple of months and heading into June and then all of a sudden it just freaking took off from there. [00:05:00] Um, fast forward to the end of the year and, um, I had a, a student with me that during the pandemic, his name's Abraham Sanchez and um, you know, he did a great job while he was with me and it was almost like a, it was a little bit of a job interview for him cuz I told him I was really interested in bringing him on and we were thankful.

I'm grateful to have gotten to the point, the end of de end of the last year in December to Bri to bring him on and. Now he's full-time with us and we're just rocking and rolling and trying to build this caseload and, um, get to a point where we can get him out into the community a lot more. So we're, we're in a really good place

Danny: right now with two clinicians.

Yeah. So, you know, I feel like that's a common, like common employment pathway in cash-based practice is either, uh, Sort of option one is, uh, go find a clinician that maybe is a little more seasoned, uh, that's coming out of an in, in-network practice. Uh, there's some benefits to that where, you know, they're like, they, they know what it's like to see high volume and they're, they, they know what it feels like to not and how much better that is.

And they, yeah. They're typically really grateful for the opportunity to, to use their skillset the way it deserves. And the other [00:06:00] route is new clinician and or student, the way that you did it to a, uh, employee. So almost like a really long job interview. So what was that, what was that process like for you and, and would you recommend that as like a good way to, to go for people that are looking to add another clinician?

Yeah. Cause I

Ziad: think in our world, like, I would definitely recommend it because w for us, like, you know, the clinical side of things, I think any of us can teach people how to, how to be like just rockstar clinicians. Like say, you know, we're all, we're all obviously in this world for a reason because we wanna help people.

But you, you can't teach somebody how to have the intangibles. Of like the soft skills, the ability to make people feel comfortable, the, the developing rapport, like the personality, like those are the things that mean more to me. It's culture fit and personality more so than clinical skills. And thankfully for me, you know, Abraham has both, but if he had only had the culture fit, which he hit from the, from like from the get go, that would've been more than enough for me to make that decision.

I'd much rather bring on somebody that needs a little bit more. Um, that that has all those culture fit things checked off than somebody who has the clinical side, but has these things that I [00:07:00] just can't overcome and can't

Danny: do. So, yeah. So clinically, what do you feel like students are coming out with that are like, crushing it, and what do you feel like that they need to, you know, work on with, with, uh, just now working through a new, a new, uh, a new clinician?

Um, where are their strengths and

Ziad: weakness? I feel like the hands-on stuff is, like any of the manual therapy type things, they're pretty solid at. I've had some pretty good experiences with the students we've had so far. Um, the one place that I think they struggle with the most is high level exercise prescription.

So, um, you know, getting beyond the, getting beyond the basics and, you know, because we're in a performance PT world, you know, we work with a lot of active adults and PTs and, and that really shines the people, the person. Shines right away or they struggle with it and need a lot of work on it and, and oftentimes we're having a lot of students that come in that struggle with thinking outside the box and thinking like two steps ahead in terms of what they need to do from a progression

Danny: standpoint.

Hundred percent. I feel, I feel like that's also one of those things that. It's not necessarily, um, an emphasis in [00:08:00] school, uh, because, you know, they're not getting tested on that, right? Like, how well can you progress and regress load absorption, plyometrics or something, right? Like it's, yeah, it's, it's, but you're learning about ultrasound because there's gonna be a question on the, the board about that, right?

So, you know, it, it is, I definitely see the same thing in, in the manual side. I think this comes with reps and, and is something you can absolutely like, improve as well. Um, how's the process been with hiring, managing and mentoring your own employee over, I know you've been in clinics where, you know, you, you've, you've had people that have worked under you, but it's very different when it's your own business.

It

Ziad: really is. And you know, the, there's, the cool thing is like the two of us have a great relationship where he knows that I'm learning the same way he's learning, like I'm learning how to be a boss and I'm learning how to. I feel like I, I know how to be an entrepreneur, but like being a boss and managing somebody and being responsible for them is a whole different ballgame.

So we have a very open line of communication where he knows that this is my first time doing this in my, in my world, this is his first time doing it as well. So we're both kind of like learning on the [00:09:00] fly and we have. Weekly mentor weekly meetings where we talk about clinical, clinical things. We talk about the business side of things in sales.

We talk about marketing, we talk about all the things that I feel like he is looking for growth and mentorship in. And at the same time I'm learning, I'm, I'm still trying to find out what my leadership style is and what, and how I'm, how I'm most

Danny: comfortable with that. Yeah. I love how you said the difference between being an entrepreneur and a boss.

Um, yeah. Cause the, what, what, like, how would you define. An entrepreneur, like the traits of that verse versus a boss, like what do you feel like really defines the entrepreneur side of things and like where do you feel like you're working on primarily to, to become a better boss?

Ziad: Yeah. I, I think as an entrepreneur, I think anybody can be an entrepreneur.

I think all you have to do is just start a business and to, and, and figure out a way to be able to have people interested in what you have to offer. And owning your own job is very different than owning a business that actually functions without you. You talk about that, get hit by a bus test all the.

Yeah. And I think anybody can, anybody can own a job. And if that's what you want and you want a lifestyle side, you know business and which is completely fine, then that's [00:10:00] com. That's totally okay. But for me it's like I want to have a team and I wanna have like a collaborative approach and I wanna be able to be a leader and kind of grow something in our field that helps take our field to a different level and just be a small part of that.

And I don't think you do that, just being an entrepreneur. I think you also learn how to have to learn how to be a leader at the. Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. Well, what do you, what are you good at as a leader and what are you bad at? Because, uh, you know, it's funny when you bring somebody on it or have kids, it exposes your leadership, uh, you know, skills or weaknesses for sure.

Yeah,

Ziad: I, I would definitely say one thing I'm good at is communication. I, I do my best on a weekly basis to keep the lines of communication open and make sure that they understand kind of what their expectations are. But at the same time, I know, and I hear from them like what they're looking for and what their expectations of me are.

And I think me, me knowing what they need and what their wants and desires are is, is really ha the, the way you become a really good leader. I don't, I think if you don't ha, if you don't have that answer to that question, it's really hard to be a leader. Yeah. And the other, the, the other side of [00:11:00] it is, The one thing I'm not good at is I'm not organizational, like I, I am not like a super organized person.

So that part of it is tough sometimes because you have things that you have to put on the schedule and you can, you can talk to Eva about this. I am horrible at time blocking, and that's one, that's one thing that I struggle with a lot and I still do to this day, and I'm still kind of learning how to be better at that.

But that's one place that I still have a lot of growth and, and, and I'm still developing kind of my strategy and my way of going.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I wonder too, with your background, I believe, uh, your, your parents own a liquor store, right? Yeah. Okay. Sorry, I didn't correctly. Um, and you know, so they're immigrants, you know, you see, and just a really strong work ethic, right?

And mm-hmm. We know, you know, for you, the clip that, that you've worked at and have sustained is very, Work capacity, which in its own right can be, um, a superpower, but also can be your kryptonite because Yeah. You know, for you to turn that off. Like, what have you found in, in your ability to kind of like [00:12:00] redirect that focus away from just, you know, the day-to-day, like do everything and now having to be a leader?

Like what things do have you found that you, you know, have had to shift in terms of giving up and really delegating over to other.

Ziad: Yeah, it's, uh, I've had to learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable and I, I like having my hands in a lot of things and it's very difficult for me to, to pass certain tasks along.

And the other part of it is like, it's hard for me to, to close up my schedule a little bit cuz I don't want, I don't want somebody, any of our patients, whether they're current or they're coming to see, see us, I don't want them to feel like they're being pushed aside. I'm not available. I don't have scheduling available, but I know that in the long run I have to be able to give up these short-term things in order for long-term growth.

And I understand that it's just very hard to pull the trigger and make it happen. And do it. Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's the biggest shift that people have to make, um, that they, they get their schedule full, they bring it, they bring admin in to help. You know, the repeatable [00:13:00] tasks that somebody else can be doing, which in his own right, is a big learning process, especially if you're not organized, right, because you're.

It's kinda like, uh, Michael Jordan, just telling somebody like, well just go play basketball, right? Like, just, just take the ball and you dribble it and you dunk it. And like, that's how it works, right? It's like, no, dude, that's maybe for you. Uh, you know, so you bring somebody else in and, and you're working at like a really high level, and then being able to distill that down to what's working.

Sometimes that's really challenging, but, you know, for, for what you're talking about and, and ultimately where you're trying to go, it's impossible to do it all by yourself, right? So, you know, it's, it's just a matter of time. The bottleneck tends to be, you can't see 40 patients, uh, you know, 40 hours of patient, you know, hours a week.

So what, what's your schedule look like today, like in comparison to, you know, a year ago when we chatted and now, like where, where's your schedule at? What's the di, what are the differences? It's

Ziad: unfortunately not as different as I want it to make. So it's fair, it's fairly similar to where it was that at, at this time last year.

Um, it's definitely gotten better in terms of the offerings that I have available. I've had a hard time [00:14:00] with, I've tapered my schedule down and, and taken away some times, but I've also been very bad at saying no. And I build it up in my head, like, I don't want, I don't wanna turn them off, I don't wanna turn them away, and then I end up.

Um, I end up kind of making accommodations for people when in all honesty, the majority of the time that I've done that has gone very well and they've loved working with Abraham. And I don't know, it's hard. It's kind of just hard to break outta that, that mindset and that habit of doing that. Yeah.

Danny: Well, have you put a hard stop on it yet?

Because I think, you know, for a lot of people they're, they're like, well, you can't, uh, you know, you can't see me for a month, but you can see Abraham, you know, in tomorrow. Like, and, and in some ways I feel like that almost makes. Them less likely to wanna see the other pt cuz they're like, well, you have a wait list and he doesn't, he must not be, um, as good as you.

Right. Yeah. So what's your strategy to make that transition, that handoff, without losing a client that has been referred to you in particular?

Ziad: Yeah, I've had a lot of conversations with people in the Mastermind about this in terms of what they've had success with and um, [00:15:00] one of the things that common themes is really, really talking up your p.

On the things that they're really good at. And so, um, I, you know, I obviously am not gonna talk somebody up on something that I don't think they're actually really good at, but Abraham is really good at working with shoulders and working with knees, and working with, you know, the spine. And I tell people that come in, if they have, they, if they hit me up for an eval on a, on a low back, I say, Hey, I have an availability.

I'll do the whole, like, I have a, you know, it's a week, week and a half to before you can see me. But I'll also say like, I, to be honest with you, I would trust Abraham with my back more than I would trust myself with it. I think he's way better at treating these than I. So I think you'd better off seeing them and, and honestly, nine times outta 10 when I've done that, it's worked out really well and they've been

Danny: happy with it.

Yeah, that's interesting. Uh, so have you guys started to almost like subspecialize, you know, within different types of injuries, and I know you're, you know, obviously you're deep in the a c l world, but, um, you know, for him, things that are not a c l related, are you trying to basically prop up somebody that's like, Hey, it's our go-to person for this, this and this, uh, as well.[00:16:00]

Ziad: Yeah, and I think it works out really well because people like the idea of seeing a specialist to seeing somebody who's an expert in what they do and they're already coming to us because they want a higher level of care and a higher quality of care. Cuz they, they know kind of what we offer going into it, especially when they're warm leads.

So the idea of not only coming to see us for a higher quality of care, but being able to deliver that by getting that delivered by somebody who's an expert in what they do. I think that goes a long way in just instilling confidence in the patient and, and they feel a lot more comfortable just going into it from that

Danny: standpoint.

Hundred percent. Um, you know, one other, uh, issue that pops up quite a bit or just some of our frustration is, Being able to communicate and, you know, get buy-in with your staff to get them to go out in the community and, and develop their own, you know, their own patient, uh, book of business along with people that are coming to your business.

Like what have, what have you found as far as, you know, uh, motivating your, your employees to be a part of the marketing process? You know, that's, that's, uh, this work [00:17:00] for. Yeah, I think

Ziad: the, just the way organizationally we have our pay structure set up, I think it goes a long way in incentivizing them to like kinda go out and Sure.

And bring, bring in as much as possible. Cause I think you have to, this goes back to kinda the leadership question we had before. You have to know what motivates your, your employees. And so some people are driven by vacation time. Some people are driven by money and some people are driven by. You know, like perks and having little things and being shown that you care for them, you know, and, and I think learning those strategies goes a long way in being able to know how to incentivize.

So I've learned that, you know, Abraham's very motivated by, um, you know, being able to have a full schedule because he wants to make more money and he wants to, he wants to grow from that standpoint. And so being able to build up, build a salary structure that works from that standpoint has gone a long way.

He knows that his schedule is not gonna be more full until he's out there in the community more so it's like nurturing the environments that we're already in. We're already in two gyms that have a lot of really active people who obviously take care of their bodies cuz they work out four or five days a week.

And so being able to be upfront and, [00:18:00] and, you know, at the center of things in the location, the, the environments we're already in goes a really long way because you're not worried, you're not going out and trying to make new relationships when you're disregarding the relationship that's already there in front of you

Danny: a hundred percent.

You know, I think that's the thing. Drives more business than, than most people probably, uh, account for in terms of, you know, we always, we wanna look at, okay, how many, how many new patients, you know, is a big metric that we tend to see. But, um, I think a more important metric is how many of the people you're seeing are referring somebody to you.

Exactly. Uh, as, as a marker of your service. Like if your service is. Just unbelievably better than anybody else. Like those people are just spewing on all their friends about why they need to come and see you. And, and the word of mouth, like people, I, I think they, they kind of put down word of mouth marketing, like, well, that's not really marketing.

Well, that's not true. Like, it's the best marketing. And if you can, uh, predictably know, like, if, if you're doing this, this, and this, it's gonna drive more people. It's, it's a great way to get, get patients in. So, you know, for [00:19:00] you guys, When you look at what you're trying to get Abraham to do that, that you do, that was so beneficial to drive folks your way.

Like what, what are a couple of those things that you really feel like set the visit, set the service, you know, set, set the experience apart from what other clinics in, in particular in network clinics, um, are, are doing,

Ziad: I think having multiple touchpoints with, with each patient, whether they're current clients or past clients, and just checking in on them and showing them that you would truly just care about them.

That goes a really long way because I don. I think everybody has like an al, they think that everybody has an ulterior motive when you reach out, like, Hey, I just wanna get you back on the schedule, so I'm gonna check in with you. But it's literally like, there's no ask. It's literally just reach out to them every couple of weeks if you haven't heard from 'em or every month and just be like, Hey.

How the hell are you doing? Like how is everything coming along? We were working on your back and we were working on this, whatever it was, and like, I kind of just wanna know where things stand and make sure that everything is still going along well. And if you come from a place of being very authentic with that, and you're not trying to come from a place of just trying to sell them on something, people can read through your bullshit really freaking quickly.

Like it's, it's, it's really easy to tell who cares and [00:20:00] who doesn't. And as long as you just care about. They'll see it and they're gonna be your most raving fans going forward if you do, if you do things along those lines. So we have touchpoints with all of our clients, whether they're past or current, and we wanna make sure that we don't go more than a week or two if it's a current client before we reach out to them.

And we don't wanna go more than a month to month and a half without reaching out to past clients and just checking in on them. Yeah,

Danny: that's it. Everybody can take that away. Super tactical, just text. How the hell are you doing? Uh, and, and get him back on. That's it.

Ziad: That's very simple.

Danny: No, but it's, how the hell are you?

Yeah. How the hell are you? You know, and you can't, um, you, you can't automate things like that too, right? Like it's, it's one of those things that is, uh, visible to a client that's like, oh shit. Like this guy's texting me. Uh, and you know, and, and I don't think most practitioners are doing that and, or, you know, putting a sort of, uh, Validity into doing it because it takes, takes quite a bit of their time.

Um, I, I do wanna, I do wanna, uh, shift gears here a little bit and jump into the a c L world. Cause you're, you are somebody within our mastermind in particular that I [00:21:00] think has done a really, really good job at really even nicheing down, like in a sub niche, right? So it's not youth sports or whatever, it's like, you know, a specific type of, uh, of, of injury, a spec, a specific type of surgery.

And, um, you. It's interesting to look at that and how much, how much bigger that niche is than I think people even think. Um, so, so if somebody's interested in this, uh, this world, right? They're like, man, I love working with a c l patients and I would like to do more of a cash-based business where I focus on a c l patients.

Where, where do people start with that? Like, what's the place where they need to start to really make sure they can even get so these people in the door? Well, I

Ziad: think the first, the first thing is be good at it first. Like, yeah, you have to, you got you. It's gotta be something that you're confident, comfortable treating.

And I think once you dial in the clinical side of it, cause if you don't have the clinical side of it down, it's gonna show up pretty freaking quick. And so if you have the clinical side and you invest yourself into that, that, that to me is step one. You have to really know what you're doing from that standpoint.

And then step two is get yourself involved in the [00:22:00] communities, in the areas where these people are. So we, we see this, it's an epidemic amongst like, you know, girls athlete, girl athletes like in, in their adolescents in their teen years. And so go, go to where they are. So go go, you know, go to other, You know, travel ball teams and club teams and uh, you know, local high schools and colleges like these, tho those are the populations that are having the biggest trouble with this because they don't prioritize the whole like, injury risk reduction side of things.

And that's an easy way to jump into something and say, Hey, can I just come show you guys how to warm up properly? Yeah. How to do like a, like, you know, just doing like the feet for 11 and just doing something as simple as like, let's go out there for a 20 minute warmup and show you guys that, that, that they, that they show that there's a 70% reduction in ACL injuries.

What do you just do there three days? And if you get the low hanging fruit first and you show them that you have confidence and you know exactly what you're doing from that standpoint, then inevitably it's gonna happen. Cause we can't prevent these things from happening. And they're gonna think of you first because you were there and you had that touchpoint with them and you showed them exactly what they needed to do.

Danny: Yeah, I think that's really well said, man. Like, you know, you have [00:23:00] non-contact. Avoidable kind of things that maybe could be trained out. You have catastrophic, somebody slid into you and your foot was planted and you know, it's a, it's a risk of sport. Right. Um, yeah. And I, I love that, you know, you're leading with education with that, uh, versus, you know, the, the world of surgeons and athletic trainers.

What has been your experience with, with that world? Like, have you had more success? Direct to consumer, sort of patience and, uh, parents, um, or, you know, finding some surgeons that are more progressive and some athletic trainers that are looking to, you know, kind of, you know, partner symbiotically with, with somebody.

Ziad: I would say a hundred percent has started direct to consumer, direct to the parents and the athlete, you know, whether it was digital marketing or doing workshops in person. But I think like as I've gotten deeper into this world, we've seen a lot more. You start to see the same names of surgeons over and over and over again.

And so there's a couple of surgeons that are around our area that are just very progressive in the way they think about things. And they know that the typical rehab is just broken and it's just not good. And, and they're [00:24:00] getting cleared and they're getting cleared to return to sport way before they should be getting cleared to return to sport.

And there's some surgeons that, that still return them to sport after six months, regardless of how anything looks. They don't test, they don't do any of that stuff. And so it's kinda like an educational piece on both sides of it. But I think the going to, you know, I, I went. The cash PT world thinking like, I don't really need to market to doctors and I don't think that's really that important, and blah, blah, blah.

And I'm realizing little by little that they are the quarterbacks of a lot of these things. And so going to the source and going and finding people who are super progressive and look at things the way that they should be looked at through the proper lens, that can be very valuable for you because at the end of the day, the patients are gonna always listen to what their surgeon.

They're gonna listen to their doctor. They really, truly value their doctor's opinions. And so going to people and, and partnering up with them, like that's been invaluable with these like four or five surgeons that I've, that I've been able to find

Danny: locally. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think sometimes a challenge, like the way that you went about it is you establish yourself as a credible expert in the area, uh mm-hmm.

For this specific type of [00:25:00] rehab. Right. And for those surgeons, the last thing they want is for their surgery. To not like, be effective because they didn't do the work on the backend. Um, I do, do you, do you notice, uh, that there is, you know, some pushback with, uh, them and not necessarily mandated, but really highly encouraged to refer internally within hospital systems and, and, um, in, you know, How do you, how do you kind of get around that?

Cause I, I, I do know that exists quite a bit around here, uh, with some major hospital systems, with some great surgeons that we refer people to. And I've even had conversations with these docs and they're like, look, I gotta send like a certain amount of these in, like, we, they, we track these things and like, I, this, I'm looking for this kind of person that's specific for you, but they're like all these other people.

Like, I mean, I really have to send a certain amount of people in network. So, you know, what, have you found that, and, and what's your, what's your sort of experience in that world?

Ziad: Yeah, you know, you, you're a hundred percent right cause we, it's a big thing here in SoCal too. So there's a lot of these, um, you know, physician own practices where they just send all of their, their people down to their own [00:26:00] practice.

I think a big part of it is our athletes and our parents going back to them for these checkups cuz they see them like 3, 4, 5 times. In the first six months. And so they go back and they just tell them like how great of an experience they're having with us. That is the warmest lead you can ever have with a surgeon like you.

You never wanna go into a surgeon's office and be like, let me, let me bring you lunch and talk to you about this and that. Like you, you wanna do that after you've already had a patient go back with them. And so I've actually been able to been fortunate, obviously with our schedules being as flexible as we can.

Going into these visits with my patients, like for these follow-ups and sitting in and chatting with the doc, with the surgeon. And that's gone a long way because they actually hear an update like directly from your mouth and not reading some, you know, some progress note that they're not gonna read half the time anyways.

So I, they app, they appreciate that, they see that you go the extra mile for them because it's not what we see often in healthcare. And so tho those types of things, that can go a long way. But at the end of the day, it's the patient having a great experience and. To go where they want to go and, and educating them on the fact that they have the freedom to go where they [00:27:00] want.

They don't have to go to where the surgeon tells 'em to go. And I think that that goes a long way as

Danny: well. I feel like that's such, such a, um, just a. Hard, hard to match customer experience if you are. I mean, imagine like back in the day, right? You're seeing 20 people a day. Uh, you know, you're, you've probably seen a ton of post-ops, but like for you to go to a follow-up visit with a, you know, with one of your patients would be so hard to coordinate that whoever's running the clinic probably doesn't care for you to do that, cuz they're like, Nope, we got all volume.

Like, you gotta be here for this and for that patient. Especially if it's a youth athlete, right? Like the parent, uh, involved in that. Like, I can't imagine anything. They would speak more highly to the, the experience that that person is having as, as a parent. Like if my kid ever had a surgery and I, they'll say I wasn't a clinician.

And the clinician was like, yeah, hey, do you want me to come to the follow up with you so I can get on the same page with a surgeon? I'd be like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That sounds amazing. You know, [00:28:00] and, and you know, so I think that that just goes such a long way, like how, how often you recommend someone.

You know, does that is, is that something that you guys try to do with any a C L, you know, you're kind of getting through the door, or is it just a high percentage of 'em or whoever's interested in it? Cause I feel like at a certain point it might bottleneck your schedule

Ziad: as well. Yeah. We don't do it with, with everyone.

I think we do it more along the lines of if there, if there has been some back and forth communication about a patient, whether they're, whether they're struggling with range of motion or like there's something, there's something from that standpoint going on, we'll go out of our way to make sure we reach out to that surgeon to let them know what's going on and, and not just send them a, a, like a progress note.

Yeah. But I do think that choosing the right person and choosing somebody who you feel like you've seen patients from already as well and you wanna nurture that relationship. Cause I will tell you, I have a couple of doctors. I, you know, that we're on kinda like a personal, you know, we have personal like friendships now and personal relationships with each other now.

And, you know, being able to get on a text thread with a surgeon or a doctor and your patient and the patient's, uh, parent and for them to know that they're, both of their healthcare providers are that [00:29:00] invested in their kids' health. It goes such a long way. And that's how you really, really build these relationships with not only the surgeons, but with the patients in the community.

And that, that's been huge for

Danny: us. Well, and I can't, I can't say that, um, Like the military's model is, is it's a socialized system. It's understaffed, like, you know, there's, there's, there's pros and cons. One of the, one of the things that we did that I thought that was great though, was anybody that had surgery, um, there, there were basically post-op days where all of the surgeons would come in from the hospital center.

We come to the troop medical clinic where I was at, which wasn't actually anywhere near the hospital, and we would sit. With the doc or with the surgeon, us and the patient and their family. And we would go through their case. Where are they at? You know, what progress are they making? They would check in on 'em.

We would talk about what's going on, collaborate on things we needed to improve or tweak or whatever it might be. And I feel like those interactions. Give a lot of peace of mind to the, the patients, you know, to our clients, really. Mm-hmm. Um, and to see that collaborative nature, which is so common, we [00:30:00] know in, in professional, you know, organizations because they're, they're working together all the time and there's fewer people.

Um, I feel like that's, that's huge, man. So that's, that's a really good nugget that anybody in that, in that trying to break into that world, um, that's a great way to really start to establish rapport as well as build that customer experience for your patients. So you're, you're seeing people. In person as well as digitally.

And you have been doing so for a while. Um, yeah. What, what do you feel like, you know, like do you, do you feel like one is significantly harder? Like, is the digital world significantly harder to get the outcomes that you want? Or do you feel like you really, um, you know, can get pretty close to what you would see somebody as far as a brick and mortar goes?

I

Ziad: think, I think it, it can get close. I don't, I still don't think it's quite as easy as it is to do it in person because you just can't do a lot of. The functional testing, the, the isometric testing and things like that, the way that you'd want to do it. So you're almost reliant on them finding somebody local to them.

Cause we, we work with people all over the country and we've worked with people in like multiple countries around the world. So we don't, I don't have like, connections to like go [00:31:00] get isometric or I, you know, go get your iso kinetic testing here or there. Like, so we have to rely on, on things that, or maybe not as good as I would like it to be, but it's still a really, really easy way to.

A service to somebody who does not have access to the quality of care that a lot of people have access to here. And so if I, if I can have somebody see their PT and the physio wherever they're at, but be able to supplement that and give them what they need from a strength and conditioning standpoint, which is what we do a lot, we do a lot of movement analysis and um, you know, strength and conditioning programming for them.

Like that goes a long way because that's what a lot of physios are just really bad at across the world. They're not good at progressing somebody through an actual SSD program. And that's something that we do a very good job.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you guys ever collaborate with anybody locally if they, if it's like, Hey, we want you to do some hands-on work with so-and-so, but we want to handle the programming, cuz they don't really have that skillset.

Like, have you guys found any relationships like that? Or is it just too sort of like spread it out?

Ziad: That normally happens just kind of organically. We haven't really actually like, like sought that out from anybody. Uh, but it usually happens where like they're gonna go see [00:32:00] their PT once or twice a week and they'll do like some of the hands-on stuff and they'll do some of like the range of motion, whatever that they need, especially in the early stages of stuff.

And then they come to see us, like it start sort of like gradually tapers off or they start to see us and then we end up giving them like, we, we end up working with them on more of the high level stuff. Cause you know, 95% of the PTs in this area, they don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to the high.

Danny: For sure. I mean, I, I think you brought that up even with, you know, earlier with your student with what they're getting exposed to. And I look back at, I mean, my school dude, all we do is ortho sport. Ortho stuff. Like, I spent, uh, I think I had two week, a two week rotation with neuro. That was it. They didn't care.

Uh, you know, they're like, dude, you're gonna see soldiers. Like you're gonna see. Sports related orthopedic injuries. That's it. And I look at our exercise prescription, sort of like strength and conditioning stuff. We did very little. Um, and frankly, I think that's because a lot of my professors, like, they were great.

They were great at diagnosing things. They're, you know, clinical reasoning, ma, like they have the manual therapy fellowship right there. So a ton of that. But whenever I got out, I remember getting just like my [00:33:00] mind blown by f m s stuff and I was like, what is this world? Yeah. Right. And that, and that's not even like if you're start talking about really progressing somebody back to high level sport, that's not, that's just scratching the surface as to what they need to be able to do.

Cuz you have to really understand how to progress and regress these movements that are gonna get them back on the field safely and when to make that handoff to, you know, their coaches as well as if they're working with a, with a, with a trainer. So, you know, for, for you, if somebody's interested in that.

Um, of this type of niche and they wanna get better at it. Like, have you found some resources that have been really, you know, beneficial on the clinical side?

Ziad: Well, I would definitely say like in Instagram has been a big place too. You follow the right people and you kind of see some of the strategies.

Obviously you can't get a very detailed like step one and step two kinda step one, like the end of it like in, in a progression. But you can get a really good idea of some of the things that people are doing and actually like kind of gets the creative juices flowing a little bit in terms of how you should approach things.

And then there's a couple of people, so one of them is Wesley Wang has a master. And he does a great job with putting together a lot of really good resources and, [00:34:00] um, and doing things from that standpoint, uh, so that you can actually go on there and see like, you know, common, common thought processes and videos and stuff like that on, on ways for you to go about thinking about how to progress people and, um, There's another PT out here on the West coast.

His name's Jason Park, and he has like a foundational like strength and conditioning for the, for the rehab clinician. And he's got like a program that he does with them as well. And so there are people like that out there that are really trying to level up our, you know, our communities, like from an educational standpoint.

And it's just a matter of making sure that you reach out and find those people that are putting out good work and, and, you know, doing, doing, actually doing the things themselves, not just not just listening to somebody who doesn't even treat. Like, you wanna actually like see somebody who actually treats this and sees it on a day-to-day

Danny: basis.

Yeah. I think that's, I think that's huge, man. Um, and yeah, but I, I, I've seen both of them. Um, I've spoken to Jason before, actually. I think he's deep in the mixed martial arts world, uh, as well. He's big in MMA world. Yeah. Good dude. Um, you has some great stuff and, uh, but you, you know, you, you bring up, you bring up Wesley and what he's doing and, and, and, uh, educational [00:35:00] mastermind, which I obviously I'm a huge fan of.

Um, I think that in our mastermind, you've done a really good job. Getting a lot out of it. Just, just not just necessarily obviously like the outcomes that you have, but um, you're like, Or they like a, you're, you're like a good locker room guy, you know, like you're, you're good for culture. Like you and you, you seem to know a ton of people in the group as well.

Like what, what are your recommendations for people that are getting involved in any sort of, uh, group? Like whether it's what Wesley's doing, what we're doing, whether it's some other sort of business development group or continued education group? Yeah. Um, what, what, where, how do you feel like, you know, someone can get the most out of their time, their money, their, their, their energy, uh, when it comes to communities like, Yeah, you're

Ziad: only gonna get out of it what you put into it.

So like, you have to be willing to be very invested and very involved in the community. And that that means, you know, being able to be okay, be, you know, be comfortable asking questions and asking for help. Like, I think a lot of people in our, in our shoes want to just say, you know what? I can do this shit myself.

I don't need, I don't need anybody's help to do this. But there, there's a lot of value and say, and [00:36:00] having a little bit of humility and just saying like, I don't really know what I'm doing with this, and so I need to ask for help. And once you start asking for help, that makes it really easy to open up.

Communication to help people with the things that maybe your skillset is and, and be, and to be able to kind of give, give back to give back to them for what they're giving to you. So I think just be like putting yourself out there and talking to as many people as possible, hearing people's stories, you know, just listening to people in our, like our, in our, in our private Facebook group on our, on our mastermind, like, just seeing the questions they ask.

I'm like, holy crap. Like, that's actually something that I've been thinking about for a while and I completely forgot to bring it up. And then you're just like, okay, let me get involved in this conversation and then just start learning from it as well. Chances are there is gonna be 5, 10, 15 people in the group that have all gone through the same struggle.

Cause we're all in different phases of our business and that have gone through the same struggle and they're gonna be able to ha to help you a lot with that. So I do think any mastermind group that you're in or any kind of group like this you're in, put as much into it as you want it to take out of it.

Cuz if you don't, then I just don't think you're gonna get as much value out it as you should. Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. One, one thing that I did recently, and this is, you know, anybody that's [00:37:00] new to a community, um, I think if you can introduce yourself and you can let people know, like what you feel like you could help them with.

Um, you know, like I joined a, I joined a, a different mastermind group, uh, about six months ago. And you know, I, I basically introduced myself and I was like, Hey, here's, here's what. Here's what I, I might be able to help you with. I, I'd love to help you if I can. Uh, one of those things was like, Hey, if you're dinged up, I know providers that I can bet for you all over the country.

And I got so many people that reached out to me. They were like, Hey, I'm in. Where, like, it actually had quite a few referrals to people in our mastermind just from me saying that because I think it's, we kind of take it for granted, right? It's like, We know what to look for. We know if somebody's good we can refer to a friend or something like that.

But the average person that just has back pain or has like, you know, ongoing, you know, shoulder problem or something like that, um, for them to get like a vetted referral is actually really valuable. And it's not like it took a ton of my time and I was really glad to, to be able to help them out. But even that right there, I think, you know, leading with value.

It just comes back [00:38:00] in, in such a huge way. Um, not necessarily just through reciprocity, but also just by like being a part of the, the community. And you're right, like getting, being a part of discussions. I know you're, you know, you're using Clubhouse and you're doing discussions on there and all kinds of stuff like that.

I think you do a really good job of it. You know, the one thing that I, I would like to know is like, how do you. How do you manage all of that? Because I think we kinda already talked about it, like there's certain things like you gotta get better managing your schedule. Like where, how do you allocate the time for those things?

Or are those just such like roi, you know, on your time, things that you just are always gonna do quite a bit of that? Yeah,

Ziad: Instagram's always gonna be highest on my list cuz we, we get the most ROI on, out of anything that we do from a digital standpoint on Instagram. So, uh, that's something that I always try to prioritize mean.

I, I don't always do the greatest job of it, but, you know, you, I've done, I've posted enough, I think we're like almost approaching a thousand posts and they're all like educational posts and so I've done a lot of em and I, I kind of know what the cadence looks like and how to set it up so they don't take.

Sorry, can you hear me? Yeah, you're good. I got you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so they don't take me a long time to do [00:39:00] anymore. So like, it's, that's something that I'm always gonna prioritize and it's just a matter of finding, like, I, I'm not, again, like I told you before, I'm not good at batching. I'm not good at blocking, but I'm really good at, if I have 20, 30 minutes here, I can knock out a post in a second.

And so that's something that I do a really, really good job of. And I just prioritize the things that we get the most

Danny: ROI on. For sure. That's really interesting. You know, uh, cause some people think. Like, and, and usually they're newer to social media and particular Instagram. There's like, this is a, it's a waste of my time.

I get crickets, right? And, uh mm-hmm. It's like, well, that's how it starts for everybody, you know? Like how, how long did it take before you were like, man, this is worth it. This is worth the time. Instagram in particular, at

Ziad: least minimum a year. I would probably say like 12 to 14 months before I actually started seeing every turn on it.

Like, I mean, all you gotta do is like talk to somebody like Shante. Yeah. And the movement Mero and like she'll tell you the same thing. It's like it, it's exactly what we were just talking about, about the mastermind group. It's what you're gonna get out of it, what you put into it. It's as simple as that.

And if you don't put in consistency, if you're not willing to actually just give and just provide value for people without expecting anything in return, then you're not gonna [00:40:00] get anything out of it and say, I think once you get to the point where you just trust the process and go. It goes a long way, and then eventually you'll hit a cadence, you'll hit a point where it just kinda like, I don't know if it's like it necessarily blow up is the right way to say it, but like, it's just gonna start paying dividends because you have a, a footprint out there in the digital world that you wouldn't

Danny: have had otherwise.

Yeah. And, and being able to point back to some of those things is, is helpful too from a standpoint of answering questions, um, you know, showing credibility for people through mm-hmm. Like, they may have a question for you, um, but maybe they aren't ready to see you just yet, and you can point them to a post where it's like, I think you're kind of here right now.

Maybe you should check this out first. And, uh, you know, I'll follow up in, in a, in a couple days and just see if that's helping or not. Um, and like that's such an easy way to prove credibility as well as gain some reciprocity from that little, you know, ad advice you gave him.

Ziad: The best thing I did, um, like probably about a year and a half ago is I started adding a hashtag and it just says A night physio acl.

And I add that hashtag to every single ACL post I put up. Yeah. And if somebody's not quite ready to work with us, I just say, Hey, like check out this hashtag, search [00:41:00] it. And we have like four or 500 posts on there where they can just look and see like, damn, this is some like really good shit that you put out there.

This is like good, like really good stuff. And then if they're on the fence about something, I always just advise them there. They come in, they ask me like, Oh, like what do I, what can I do for quad stuff? It's like, well, yeah, I can't give you anything specific, but go check out this hashtag. And then, you know, chances are a lot of times I hear from them like six months later when they're actually ready to do something with us and they come and they work with us.

And so I think that, again, giving without the expectation of getting something in return goes a

Danny: very, very long way. It's so counterintuitive, I think, for most people cause they're just like, Yeah, but I need help now, right? Like mm-hmm. Uh, and that's just such a, it's a difficult place to be when you actually do need help now for you to have the patience to be able to like, you know, delay and, and, and wait on that.

So, um, you know, I, I think I, I think that's really good advice. Uh, I'll, I'll end it with this man. Are you planning the golf tournament in Dallas coming up? I am. You are. Have you been working on your short game? I have

Ziad: not. So it's gonna be an, it's gonna be very, very, very interesting. I'm looking forward to actually doing some gardening when I'm out there.

Cause I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be [00:42:00] creating a lot of divots out there. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. That's

Danny: challenging. We got, we got some people that are legit golfers, uh, that are, that are in there. That's just like, it's such a cool thing to see it organically organized. Because I didn't do, I had nothing to do with this.

I, I had no idea what was happening. Uh, the fact that Chad Burnham had made such a cool belt, uh, dude, that thing is amazing, isn't it? It looks better than the belt we give people for the mvp. I I was like, where did you get that man? Like, I've gotta get, I gotta hook. You gotta hook me up with your guy. Uh, so no, I'm excited man.

I'm excited to see you here. You know, it's three weeks away. It's, uh, it's, it's gonna be great. Um, you know, and just be around each other and learn from Juliet who's coming in. And, um, so anyway, if, if people are interested in learning more about, you know, ignite and, and you know, potentially, you know, whether it's, you know, working with you on the a c l side or looking at, you know, maybe even like working with you at some point, if they're a student or a new clinician, um, where can they go to, uh, to learn?

So go, you can

Ziad: go to our Instagram and kinda that's where the, the bulk of our, you [00:43:00] know, patients that we work with and stuff, and that they ha the handles Ignite Physio, um, and it's physio with a Z. And then, um, if you have, if anybody wants to reach out, has any questions, if I'm always open to kinda chat with people and help any way I can from that standpoint too.

So you can always email us ignite physio gmail.com and then I'll, I'll get back to you there as well. Or you can just hit us in the dms and we'll, we're always willing to talk. If you wanna see a little bit more about all the services we offer and stuff, um, ignite physio.com would be the place to go.

Danny: Cool. Well make sure you, uh, you hit up, uh, hit up Z you got a question, reach out, connect, uh, make sure you, you lead with value, right? Like, uh, like exactly you already said. And, uh, dude, a always, you know, I know you're busy, man. Thank you so much for, you know, taking the time to jump on the podcast while you're navigating LA traffic.

Um, I'm very impressed with your driving skills. You're very good defensive driver. Um, and, uh, and, and I'm just excited to chat with you and, and see how things have gone. And, and it's amazing to watch the progress and just see where you're, where you're going and. Honestly, it's just scratching the surface, which is uh, which is pretty crazy to think so, um, dude, as always, thanks so much for your time.

I really, really appreciate it. [00:44:00] No, excited to see

Ziad: you in a couple weeks, man. It's forward to chatting

Danny: guys. Well, hey, thanks for watching and listening and we will catch next time.

Hey, real quick before you go, I just wanna say thank you so much for listening to this podcast, and I would love it if you got involved in the conversation. So this is a one way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to get you into the group that we have formed on Facebook. Our PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group has about.

4,000 clinicians in there that are literally changing the face of our profession. I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connected with other clinicians all over the country. I do live trainings in there with Eve Gigi every single week, and we share resources that we don't share anywhere else outside that group.

So if you're serious about being a PT entrepreneur, a clinical rainmaker, head to that group. Get signed up. Go to facebook.com/groups/ptentrepreneur, or go to Facebook and just search for PT Entrepreneur. And we're gonna be the only group that pops up under that.