E190 | Being A Professor And An Entrepreneur With Duane Scotti

Today's episode is a discussion with Duane Scotti.  Dr. Duane Scotti is a physical therapist, educator, researcher and founder of Spark Physical Therapy.

He is considered a leader in the fields of rehab, sports medicine, performing arts medicine, and human performance optimization.

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Episode Transcription:

Danny: [00:02:31] Hey, what's going on, guys? Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast, and we're bringing an interview. You're aware we're going to start doing more of these, a chance for us to connect with other entrepreneurs around the, around the country. And, we got buddy Duane Scotti on from, all the way from Connecticut, Wallingford, Connecticut.

And we got a chance to meet at CSM this year, in Washington DC. And you were with, and I think it's Jay Myerson right.

Duane: [00:03:12] Yeah.

Danny: [00:03:12] There was a, you guys came to the workout that we did add like I think it was 5:30 in the morning. It was very early.

Duane: [00:03:18] Yeah.

Danny: [00:03:18] What was it? Was it a, I think it was his first CrossFit training session.

Was it yours as well?

Duane: [00:03:23] It was technically my first CrossFit session, yes.

Danny: [00:03:25] At an actual CrossFit gym.

Duane: [00:03:27] It was, yeah,

Danny: [00:03:28] yeah, yeah. It's, it was a fun little workout. The coach was excellent, you know. My buddy Andrew owns that, owns that gym and, and I'm glad they could accommodate whatever it was, 40 people or, or whatever it was.

And the fact that 40 people showed up at 5:30 in the morning to come to a workout was, was cool as well. So, how'd you liked CSM this year?

Duane: [00:03:47] it was great. You know, the best part about, you know, the more national conferences I go to now is, is the networking. Yeah. So I thought the workout idea that you had organized was excellent.

It was super cool just to meet, you know, active people, and you know, most PTs, we like to remain active and get. You see, I usually work out at 5:00 AM 6:00 AM anyway, so isn't any, you know, the difference in the timeframe, those from the West coast. So I felt terrible for the three hours earlier.

Great idea for you to do that. And it, networking is the best part about conferences now for me as opposed to so much of the programming I usually need. You know, so. Focused on the actual programming only each one, but it's just meeting up with colleagues, you know, across the country. I value most about conferences now.

Danny: [00:04:38] It's a high point, man. That's the first, first, like PT conference I went to since I graduated from PT school. We went, we went to. I think it will leave you a CSM. Well, no, it wasn't. It was, it was, whenever APGA conference in San Antonio when I was in school at Baylor. And I hadn't gone to one since I got out.

Primarily would just go to like, you know, individual workshops or clinics and things like that versus these big conferences. And, you're right, it's, it's more about—kind of networking with people. Social media is exciting. It like makes it somewhat, it's easier to network with people in a very, a very digital sense, but, but, but yeah, then, you know, for somebody like Shantay Cofield to come in, you know, from California and, and jump into a five 30 workout, you know, and be able to kind of say hello to people that know her and, and, it's just a cool way to see like, Oh, you're an actual real

 Human being, right. And, we're all, we're all, we're all working out together, and misery loves company. So it was fun too, it was fun to turn everyone in the morning. So I'm, I'm, I'm excited to dig into your, into your business, man. So, you have an interesting, and you have an interesting background, right?

So as I was, as I was reading your background, I was like, Jesus, this guy has like every degree under the sun. And so, you're basically, you're a PT. You're your coach, and you are an educator, full-time educator. And you, you're an entrepreneur, you, you have your own, you have your own business. So give me a background, like how did all that happen?

Like what was, what was the origin story from like, I graduated, and now I've got my hand in all these things. Like how'd you got to where you are now?

Duane: [00:06:03] Well, a great question. So I think it really kind of goes back to, and it was funny, I was just, so, first off, I'm like super honored to be on your podcast because of I just, I'm kind of new to podcasting.

Maybe two or three years ago, I listened to Jimmy McKay's podcast. You know, the first podcast I ever listened to, I was outside shoveling like two feet of snow. I was like, well, just podcasting that, you know, keep my mind busy, be productive, learn something while I'm out there shoveling. And I came across your episode when you were on his podcast, you know, way in the beginning.

And I was like, it just opened my mind up to this whole other world, that PT, and you know, I liked his podcast initially for just opening my eyes up to what else is going on in the PT world. And then obviously I started following your podcast, and I've listened to, I think, every single episode of yours to a bunch of podcasts.

There's now on my runs, you know, just teach my mind busy or a long car ride, you know, driving to conferences, stuff like that. My mind kind of racing and I always like to hear, you know, different ideas, what, you know, different people are doing. And. So this kind of goes back to the episode I just listened to.

I think yesterday was with you, Eve and Jared, and you were talking about just being your best self and always wanting to learn and grow. So I've ever had that mentality that I was never going to stay stagnant within the physical therapy profession. You know, when I first graduated, I was a personal trainer at the time.

I had my CSCs, so I was doing some strength and conditioning, personal training as kind of my side hustle, and back when I graduated. Unfortunately, you know, this model of PD practice, the cash-based model didn't exist. Right? So I was kind of working in the clinic full time and then I was personal training, you know, in the evenings and on Saturday.

So I had my clients that I was doing strength and conditioning with. I'm working with different athletes, and I always kind of had my hand in multiple things at the same time. So I'm a person who just can't do the same thing for 40 hours a week. And like I give credit to people who are in the clinic, and you're working 40 hours in the same clinic for the last 10 15 years.

So I kind of went down the clinician route, try to be the best clinician I could be, you know, with continuing education certifications, did the OCS, and then I started teaching part-time in the labs. Ortho was kind of my baby, and I really like interacting with students and then went down the whole educator route.

So then I started to invest six, seven years of my life, in getting an advanced doctoral degree and so looking at the academic doctoral degree, the Ph.D., while I was doing that because when I graduated as a master's program, I decided to do the clinical doctorate at the same time. I figured, why not? I'm already putting myself through enough misery, so I did it at the same time, did successfully, thankfully complete the dissertation, got the degree, got a full-time faculty position, and then then it was kind of like, what's next, I guess for me to conquer.

I did run my first marathon right after I did the Ph.D., so I was like, all right, that's one thing off the bucket list and did the full marathon, and then it was really, it kind of. I was getting into the entrepreneurial realm. I guess I was kind of forced to get into that model because then once I was done and I was a faculty member. I'm a clinical faculty, so you know, that was one thing I valued, and I always wanted to be an educator that practices what he did.

And I never wanted to be an educator. I was like, Oh yeah, 20 years ago, when I used to treat, this is what we did. I wanted to be hands-on, you know, I value my manual therapy skills and integrating that with exercise, and that's what I preach to my students, and I want to be able to live and do those types of things.

So I knew I wanted to stay in the clinic and honestly with putting myself through a whole bunch of debt with all those degrees. You see, I was still paying off my PT, you know, loans and then decided to take out more loans for the Ph.D. You see, I was in the clinic-based model, a traditional model, and I was maxed out at a ceiling of this is your rate is what you're going to get paid.

Forever that you work per diem for us, and you know, I was kind of forced into looking at some other models, and thanks to you honestly and hearing about other individuals who are doing this out of network model. You know, it started kind of getting me thinking, and then I sort of went down that route.

And then honestly, once I, so just a sniff of it, it was kind of like. Wow. This is amazing, and I need to learn more about this. So I guess it goes back to like my next challenge in learning and furthers my education. So now, my, you know, next problem and furthering my education is all in the entrepreneurial realm and the business realm and marketing and sales and things that I never got any of my degrees.

Yeah. I know that's a long answer to your question, but that's, no,

Danny: [00:11:15] well, it's just cool to hear the, you know, I, I just love to listen to the origin story of, of how people get to a particular place and, and it's, you know, it's interesting is I think for a lot of people, they, they, they view. You know, these things just happen overnight, right?

Like what you're describing is, is a, is a very long journey. And, and it's also something that, you know, you seem like a very, sort of, achievement, kind of driven kind of person. Like, I, I did this, now what? And then this. And then, now, and that's something I see a lot in entrepreneurs that I, that I'm friends with and that I've worked with is they chase, impact and achievement, which is actually like.

It's re, it's, I think it's probably my opinion, the best thing to chase because, you know, when she will try to track money, there's a lot of emptiness associated with that. Like when you, when you hit us, you hit a certain, you know, figure, I know for a lot of my, my, entrepreneur peers, as the seven-figure in a year, gross revenue businesses, like a big deal, that's a sort of a big Mark.

But every one of them that I talked to, you know, that's done it. And myself included. There's, I feel nothing different, you know, it's literally like cold, like onto the next thing, but, but then for you to be able to do something that's an accomplishment like there's a lot of personal satisfaction associated with that and the ability to be a lifelong learner.

If you like physical therapy, you can do that for sure. Business is God. It's like chasing the dragon, man. You never master it. There's always so much to learn. There's still People that are just continually trying to learn within it. So it's exciting to hear that. And for you being a, being a faculty member, like I, I find your position interesting because, academia typically, there's a lot of structure associated with, it seems like very much like the military.

And, for someone that is more entrepreneurial, it seems like, you know, you, you may. I guess you go against the grain a little bit with that. How was that for you being in academia and then also with the students that you have that see what you're doing? Like how, how is that interaction with them in terms of their interest in what you're doing versus a tradition, the traditional model?

Duane: [00:13:10] well, I think it's, it's a unique situation because students are starting to get a lot smarter about this and starting to see, you know, as they go on their clinical. And I advise a lot of students, so. You see we, we speak a lot about after their first clinical; for instance, they come back for a full another year of the tactic work before they go on their last clinical.

And they, they're, you know, some of these students are in clinics, and you know, it is more that, you know, chop mentality and high volume clinics and, you know, a lot of them are not wanting to go into that. And then, I also see students who have a passion for ortho. And manual therapy. And you know, there's the thing, I love this, I love your class and, but you know, I don't want to work till 9:00 PM.

I don't want to see 30 patients per day. I don't, you know, they don't want to work in that model. And for me, it's a little, you know, I'm a little scared honestly, about where. You know, the outpatient orthopedic, we're all the going. And obviously, that's like a whole other topic. And you know, I, I do think it relates to the reimbursement rates.

So I'm not blaming the clinic owners or directors of clinics, but it is related to that reimbursement rate. But. I am worried about that. There are the students who are interested in getting into orthopedics, manual therapy, sports performance, but their hands are being tied, or they get into that, you know, into that field.

For a couple of years, and then they're getting burnt out. So then they're going into, you know, maybe they're going into rehab, they're going into home care, but perhaps that's not where they're passionate. So that kind of goes back to reality, you know, your passion and what you want to do. And you know, for me, kind of going back to your original question as being a faculty member, I think, you know, bringing new ideas is helpful.

To the academic world and just being able to have some of that input from an entrepreneurial mindset can be helpful. I see there is a demand as far as our students go, and they're being, you know, maybe my goal is. To, you know, help their curriculum and offer some type of elective course because there is a demand and we offer in our last semester elective, so students can choose from like if he needs elective or neuro based kind of elective, manual therapy elective.

Or right now, we have like an exercise science elective. So kind of maybe seeing that as something, if someone does think they want to go into more of an entrepreneurial realm and having that as an elective. I think that will be helpful, but it goes back to like the values and, and what I value first and foremost in outpatient orthopedics is your time with your patients, your communication, your manual therapy, as well as your exercise and movement.

Right? So those are like the core pillars and what I value, and I don't care what setting you work in. You need to be able to do those things. Unfortunately, a lot of them, the settings, you didn't have the time to do those things, and that's was some of the Australian I was having in working in these clinics where I'm now working part-time because I'm also faculty. Still, now I'm not having enough time, and I'm being forced to see two or three patients at the same time, and I can't provide, you know, that quality of care that I want to give and offer the value to the patients that I'm seeing.

So it is a matter of finding a clinic, whether it is in-network, out of network, but you need to be able to do those things. So that's kind of the, what I instill in my students and them finding those opportunities in those settings. So they're going to have to be picky. They're going to have to be, you know, really go, and I say do their due diligence.

It's not a matter of you're going to go to the clinic cause you're going to offer you the most money. That doesn't matter at all. I need to go somewhere where you're going to be able to learn. You're going to be able to grow, and you're going to be able to. Do something that you're passionate about and be ready to serve the communities that you want to help?

Danny: [00:17:10] Yeah, I, I mean, I see this frustration a lot in students that are reached out to us or new grads, I say within a year, but many students, even when they go on their rotations, I was at a dry needle course with, a student. He just graduated. But he's only been out for about six months. And. He was expressing frustration to me about his first job, you know, and does he see high volume?

And he's like, yeah, this isn't really, this isn't what I signed up for. I thought it was going to be accused really into MobilityWOD stop. He was like, I saw like Kelly's strep, like she still had a squat, like, where's that? Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's, and it's, it's almost as if I'm. Yeah. They think they're going to get into one thing, and they end up getting to something different, and that's, it seems very frustrating.

Obviously, it would, and they're taking it on and a lot of debt and betting on themselves in a way for a career that, you know, hopefully, they enjoy going forward. So, you know, for you, like many of us, it's it, you've decided to kind of go—your route. So as you chose to start to spark physical therapy, like what was the defining reason that you're like, you know what, I just, I have to go out on my own.

I'm going to, and I'm going to do this, in a, in a setting where I was, I'm not going to accept insurance directly. And, you know, like, what did that transition look like for you?

Duane: [00:18:25] So it'd be sincere on it. I didn't plan on this. So this honestly just happened organically. I was working in, you know, the traditional clinic.

And I had my caseload there, meaning I was running in 100% of the patients to the clinic that, because I've been in this local area for 16 years, treating, I have a following. I've niched down my practice to where, you know, I, I went down the dance medicine realm, so I was a dancer my whole life.

And I love working with actors, you know, individuals. And I want to see athletes. And I knew that that was. Kind of the population that kept me up at night. You're thinking about those patients at night. What are you going to do, the research and stuff, when are you going to do with them? You know you feel like most satisfied helping, and it's always been that active population.

You've been in previous clinics I've worked in, I, you know, sought out those athletes, but everyone was competing for those, you know, soccer players, basketball players, and. I got back into the dance world after like a ten-year hiatus, I started teaching again, and it was in the local dance studio. And there's like, and there's a lot of girls here are wearing these knee braces.

You know, we're having knee pain, and they're not getting help. And then I, you know, come to find out that a lot of PTs don't, I feel as comfortable treating dancers. So then I went on, and further, my education went dancing medicine. You know, conferences, and then started a program at the first clinic that I was at this dance medicine clinic.

So I started creating a lot of dancers now. It was kind of integrating what I knew from the dance world into those patients and being able to help them. And then I kind of brought that to the next clinic that I was at. And then I have one daughter that's a gymnast, one that's a dancer. So gymnastics had a lot of similarities between dancers, and then it has a lot of similarities between the strength and conditioning.

Yeah. Or like Jack, those girls, if their practices are strength and conditioning for 30 45 minutes every single day. They do that. So there's a lot of strength and conditioning involved in gymnastics. And I was like, well, I can you help these, you know, Jeunesse. And then I, again, further my education, went to national Congress and, you know, started following up people in the gymnastics medicine world.

And. So I start seeing a lot of gymnasts in the clinic at, at, you know, my daughter's shin, and I've seen a lot of Genesee nod dancers. And then the gymnastics coach just asked me, he was like, Hey, we got a massage therapist that comes and sees the girls. A lot of these girls are coming from all over the state.

Yeah. Well, these core pools, so it's tough for their parents to bring them to therapy. Because they're in the carpool and they can't bring them. He's like, can you just see them here while they're already coming for practice? They're here four hours every single day, so ten years street, I'm here.

I was like, Mmm, sure. And then you know if you're in your podcast, and I was like, all right, let me look into this. Like. Model and you know, open LLC and just kind of started by, you know, taking a chance and be like, let's see how this works out. And then once I, as I said earlier, I got a sniff of that and was like, wait, I can treat one patient for an hour and actually like provide the proper education.

Use my manual therapy skills. The community has the time to communicate with their parents, put them on a plan where they're in charge of their health, be able to communicate with the coaches on-site, so there's better care. It was like, wow, like my results were terrific. And I was like, this is all for the betterment of the athlete.

And then. That's when I started to look at it as like, Hey, well, is this, as opposed to me just doing a side hustle and me just having more personal satisfaction as a clinician, you know, should I think of this as a business? And then that's when I, you know, started rebranding the business because initially I just like opened up my name was like Scott and performing arts.

And then I started, you know, looking at it differently and being like, Hey, this is a business that I love, and I'm passionate about, and I want to grow and I want to be able to provide, you know, the service in this model. Two more people and, you know, cause I'm a runner, you know, then I really kind of expanded out to opening up to more of the running community in my, in my local area.

Well,

Danny: [00:22:39], you know, it's interesting, eh? Yeah. I mean, all of a sudden, all these years of you working on, you know, the clinical skill set your background and next thing you know, it's like there's an alignment there. And for a lot of people, you know, I was at this workshop in salt Lake and the guy that was running it, he said, most people have six to seven excellent opportunities that come their way in their lifetime.

And most of them. Either is not ready for it or are too scared to, you know, take it on. And they're afraid of like failing. And, you know, a lot of people would just say like, ah, well, whatever it may this, that would have been cool. Or like, I didn't have time for that, or, and not do anything with it.

And what ends up happening is it's just. There's less discomfort associated with that than failing at something. Right. And, and for you, you just said, Hey, this could be perfect for me. I'm thinking the same thing, like a light bulb moment. Dude, this sounds awesome. Let's, let's go for it. Right? And what's cool is I, at this point, I haven't rebranded your company.

And decided like, Hey, this is something that I want to pursue and grow. Now the challenge becomes scaling past yourself, which I'm assuming, you know, you want to be able to do that to impact other people. So what have you found so far in terms of, you know, your time in your business that you feel like, is it?

Kind of differentiating factor that sets, you know, your, your practice, you know, apart from other methods in the area and why people would want to come to see you. So your sort of unique value position.

Duane: [00:24:06] So you think it is the niches. So really looking at, you know, my three avatars are runners, dancers, gymnasts, and also active adults.

So anyone who is that middle-aged, you know, person, it's; honestly, I treat more dance moms

Danny: [00:24:21] and

Duane: [00:24:23] than the actual athletes. So those are kind of my three or core avatars, if you will, is just defining. That niche area. And I do have, you know, specializations and know who the unique demands in dancers know the unique demands of a gymnast and can talk the lingo, talk the language.

Same thing with runners, with me being a runner myself. And so I think that's something that people look for is, you know, someone who, number one, has a specialty in that area. And I've found that people look for that. They want the specialist in that area. And even though I had OCS and I had. You know all these, you know, courses, manual therapy, you know, manipulation, dry needle legs, like all of the clinically based courses and research stuff.

As far as my degree and my dissertation on, you know, it's like the internet. Initially, I was, I was dumbfounded when you know people would be like. Oh yeah, you treated me for your shoulder, you know? Yeah. Dwayne, you know, who should I go to the orthopedic cause I have knee pain and here I'm like, what do you mean like, dude, I'm the specialist in knee pain, like three years dissertation.

I'm like, people don't know that. The community doesn't know that. And so they don't relate to that. Well. So the communication piece is critical. And me communicating to them that, yes, I can help you with your problems. And then I think the other thing that sets me apart is that—overall treatment package.

So I am mobile, so I am on site. So that's a convenience factor to a lot of dancers, gymnasts. They get dropped off for practice. I could see them onsite, as well as communicating with the parents. So I'm always talking, and continuously, we know that. You know significant limitations, and you know, our medical field is the lack of communication.

And I was just on with the gymnastics parent earlier, and I haven't treated her in now four weeks, but we've been communicating, communicating with her physician because she had a stress fracture. So you know, that kind of different level of service that they are going to have that constant communication with me and access and then really kind of putting them in charge.

Right. Giving them their plan and not. Be it. So they're coming two to three times per week for six to eight weeks to get fixed. But they're coming to learn precisely what their problem is. I'm going to provide them some pain relief initially, and then, you know, whether it's manual therapy, whatever I'm utilizing, and then get them moving and put them in charge of there, so I use an app, you know, giving them videos of all the exercises and then really promote that kind of active mindset.

Danny: [00:27:11] Yeah. You know you touched on something that I think is, if, if you're, if you're listening and you either have a practice, you're thinking about starting a workout, you may not have all the, you know, credentials that, you know, that, Dwayne does. But, you may be a great communicator, and you may be able to.

Not have these firewalls in place that people get so frustrated with. And if you think, think about the average medical experience that people have. You know, I had to go to a, just do like a, a yearly physical, just this on Monday I had to do this. And they say, you know, Hey, make sure you show up 30 minutes before your visit or you, you know, your visit is going to get canceled.

Like, we're going to just. Put somebody else in there, right? So, of course, I show up 30 minutes for a visit there, then an hour late to see me for, and I know it's going to happen. So I'm sitting there with a book, you know, and I'm like, this is bullshit. Yeah. Like I, I'm not ready. I'm not going to recommend this place to anybody.

And it, and it's also so hard to get in touch with anybody. If I want to see my lab results, cause me, I want to send it to a friend of mine. Let's get a second opinion on what things look like preventatively. Like it's so hard to get in touch with anybody and just the fact that you can email somebody back or.

Or in the early days, I would text people as I would just, you know, that's what I would do before we had, you know, multiple providers that right there, like that level of just. Convenience is so valuable. It's so valuable. So you can have less of a clinical kind of skill set, but you can be more willing to be, you know, engaging with people and make sure that they understand and they feel like they're getting the right things.

And that right there can separate the difference between somebody having a business that fails and, and it does well. And I think the other thing that you touched on was this was the avatar. These niches, you said you three avatars, which is fantastic. You understand your target population well.

And. Niching down for effectiveness is enormous. Now for you, what have you found in terms of a repeatable marketing system to get those people in those niches to come and see you and like, what are you doing to drive that within your business?

Duane: [00:29:10] So I think, you know,  social media for me has been, has been vital during the first year and a half of my business in really getting that message out.

And. You know, that's kind of one facet. And then definitely the in-person aspect has been, important too. So I guess for social media it's kind of talking to that. Mmm. You know, avatar. And that's what I've tried to help with my messaging. And honestly, a massive shout out to you for the PT entrepreneur Facebook group.

Because I remember I was going away on vacation. I was going unplugged actually for a week in Aruba in December. I posted on the group, I was like, what books do you guys recommend? Like, I don't read, I'm not a reader at all. Like literally, the only thing I've ever read is like PG journal articles.

You know, I'm more of an auditory learner, so that's why I love podcasting so much. And you know, a bunch of people on the, on the group, I think Eve might have chimed in, and he was like. Mmm. The StoryBrand. So Don

Danny: [00:30:12] loves a great book

Duane: [00:30:13] and read it, and it was just like earth-shattering, like just reading that and just changing my whole mindset.

And as you know, we're the God because everything that in mine. My whole career has been focused on, okay, OCS, this degree, that's her. It was all about us. Right? It's kind of set up like that where you feel like you need to climb these ladders. Like I was in a hospital-based system. There's a political ladder system, so I was a level two therapist, and I was the clinical extrovert.

I was level three therapists. Right? The patients don't know any of that. Right. They didn't care. So kind of change. You know, going back to social media and that trying to be my messaging to, to sort of drive those patients into those specific avatars and finding out what their problems are as opposed to what I thought was important.

So now I'm trying to do a better job at, you know, for a gymnast, for instance, shoulder mobility is a big issue. Hip mobility is a big issue. So, okay, these are the problems. And I was talking to the coaches. And finding out through our interactions, Hey, what do you like? Last week was a perfect example. Coach is talking to me, and she's like, what do I do?

Do you know? I'm seeing a lot of these girls who are unable to, and when they're on beam, they're able to get like the full extension. Like when I put them on the floor, they can get their leg up, but when they're on the beam, they're not fully extending. It's like, okay, so they're not actively activating their loop.

All right, so that's a problem. Yeah. So they're not, so if you chew them or if I tap or you tap there, can they do it? She's like, yeah. So I'm like, so it's a problem with activation and muscle. So it was like, all right, so here's a problem. So then I went and designed a program to, you know, the progression of exercises to help them activate their glutes.

So kind of finding out what their problems are and what, how, you know, using my background as PG, how are we going to solve those problems, is essential. And then I know it's something you preach a lot is getting yourself out there in the local communities. In the beginning, I had a tough time with this because I still had that mindset is.

Again, it was like, you know, 15 years of clinical practice. I had a break of being like, I'm not good enough. There are always people better than me. You know, there's this better researcher, there's this clinician who's a better manipulator than I am. There's this one who's teaching more courses than I am, and.

It was, it was a mindset shift. And I had to get out of my head and be like, put myself out there. And so I started doing some workshops, like, you know, based upon everything you've said, and be more visible at the dance studio, you know, at the gym, you know, attend the local parent meetings, you know, talk about how I can help, you know, they're genius, they're the answers.

And that's been huge. So the more workshops that I've done. And being onsite and sponsoring local races, you know, just getting in front of people and talking to them has been like huge at getting that avatar in that focus as well as some of the, you know, more of the online strategies and you know, with even Facebook and in groups and lives and you know, some of those more digital strategies that I've been learning along the way has helped to kind of get that niche market down.

Danny: [00:33:23] Yeah, I think, I think we can all have this imposter syndrome. It's funny, even somebody like you that feels like, Oh, somebody is better at this, or whatever. I'm sure. I guarantee you, you know, imagine just the mind of a student or a new grad coming out. This is, this is why, I think the mindset side of things is so, so important.

And that, that, that word, I guess is, it can be a little vague, but it's just the idea of just understanding your, your worth, your value and the, what you bring to the table for other people. And also. How much, honestly, we know so much more than the average person. Like if someone's not in healthcare, they don't understand, like they just don't know what to do.

They don't even know that, okay, you were hurt to help them with their shoulder, but their knee hurts. They need to see somebody else for that. That's, that's a reasonable response. We, we, we know that we see that a lot and we think, Oh, that's silly, but. Also, you know, that's, that's not what they do. So, you know, for you, education's enormous.

I agree. It's one of those things that can drive a business, you know, really successfully or it can, it can cause the demise of your business if you just sit in your office and you don't ever get out, and no one knows who you are. What have you found as the biggest challenge so far in your, your cash-based practice?

You know, in terms of once you got to start it, like, what's been the hardest thing for you to, you know, get good at or to improve.

Duane: [00:34:37] I think it was really that the messaging and communication and the mindset initially and being, you know, being okay with, didn't reject it. So, you know, especially in that more of that clinic.

You know, years, as I said, you know, you used to be in one of the top dogs, top producers that, you know, clinical specialists, clinical expert, and you know, professor and all of that to kind of get rejected. You know, where someone doesn't want to come to you because they want to use their insurance, right?

So being okay with that and realizing like, I'm not going to be able to help everyone. And that's why I love it now. Because I've embraced that and now I've, I try. My online presence has been decided to be like an educator to the community. Like, here's the free value I'm going to give you, and let's try to educate the most amount of runners as possible.

And I'm okay with that being like, all right, like, they're not going to work with me. That's okay—kind of like what you've done, honestly. Like you've helped me in more ways than you realize, even though I've never. Single handle. They have paid you at a client of yours, but you've helped me tremendously.

I listened. Oh, you're free podcasts that you've provided and the value that you put upfront. So like I see that as being, okay, this is my opportunity where I can educate the community, local renders, genders, dancers on ways to stay healthy and happy, and then if they want to come work with me, that's great because that's why I want to work with.

So really that mindset shift, and then definitely the sales thing. No, it's looked at as a dirty word, but it's, there's. There's a strategy to it, and it's not so much, and just change that mindset, and you're trying to sell someone. And the way we valid, you know, look at money and you know, whether or not we're worsted.

So that whole mindset shift. And now I finally am in a place where I feel comfortable, feel uncomfortable, you know, stating the price to someone over the phone. And I feel okay. And if they say no, I don't feel like, Hey, I'm taking it personal cause I still listen. Initially, it was like, wow, someone didn't want to work for me.

Oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. Perhaps this is wrong. Perhaps it's too much money. Maybe that, you know, you start doubting yourself and after just getting as many reps as I have in and see how many people quite been able to help and have kind of embraced this model and met their goals. And. You know, it's given me that confidence to feel okay on the sales part, but I know I still need to get a little bit better on that aspect

, welcoming thing. I'm getting better on in the messaging, but the sales are probably. The idea that I still need to do a little bit better job.

Danny: [00:37:21] Yeah. It's, it's, it is hard, right? It's, it's, it's not a skill we learned in school. It should be a skill we learn in school. Honestly. It helps so much with compliance and clinical outcomes.

But, a friend of mine is out in Las Vegas, and he put a post up the other day about one of his patients was telling him he was looking for a plumber in the area and the average cost of a plumber was like 150 to $200 an hour in Las Vegas. And, so he just put it, put it up as perspective for, you know, what we think is.

W w two people, as expensive you know, someone that's fixing, fixing like a leaky pipe, and, and it's not even your body, right? This is like a house or, or, and, and they're, they're charging that amount of money. No one thinks twice about it because no one wants to deal with plumbing.

Right. And, but if we can do that as okay, other professions are. This is what they're charging and disassociate ourselves from, you know, this is what insurance says we're worth, which can be hard. It's, it is. It is challenging that sale in a nutshell. And I, I think, for us.

The other thing to look at, and I heard somebody say this one time, about thinking of yourself as the assistant buyer, like trying to help somebody not make a wrong buying decision. And in particular, somebody sings that we know are not all that helpful—for instance, an expensive image, you know, an MRI of some sort.

You know, maybe some series of like injections or I'm going to take. But you know, whatever, different types of medicine that may not be all that helpful, or it may end up causing more problems down the road. we have to, we know that stuff, and for us to be able to help them make a better buying decision, it's a

Duane: [00:38:49] different,

Danny: [00:38:49] it's a different viewpoint.

Then like, I'm selling this to somebody. It's like, no, I'm helping you avoid other shit that you don't, that you don't need. So, I've been putting on a spot for a second, so in, in a year, so 12 months from now, like, what do you want your practice to look like? Like. Do you want to scale to more than just yourself?

Like are you, you know, how many, how many hours are you trying to put in on this? It sounds like between what you're doing, you know, with the university and, and your practice, you probably don't have too much bandwidth. So I'm interested to hear like how you're trying to scale this.

Duane: [00:39:18] Yeah. I think, right now, I'm pretty much maxed out on the people I can help her reach.

So I've already increased my prices two times. Mmm. You know, that's, so there's probably not much more I can go up from that point. But I do expect maybe go up a little bit more too, you know, really value the time that I'm treating. But yes, it would be to scale and, and, you know, bring on some people to help out.

And, you know, the goal would be someone who has experience in these niches. So I'm a big believer in the slots and. You see, I want someone who's been a gymnast and want someone who's been a dancer their whole life and is a bang-up PT, and obviously, they've got to have excellent communication skills and no, right now, you know, sticking with the mobile model.

And, I enjoyed the onsite model as opposed to the home model. I still do home visits, but I'm more efficient with my time now. If I can go to the gym, see four girls in a row, or, you know, go to the other gym that I'm affiliated with, see five clients in a row, then me spending half an hour driving in between my car, right.

Like that around. So I think, you know, longterm. Maybe possibly, you know, doing like you've done an open a shingle and have a, you know, in onsite. But now, with my roles with being a faculty member, I don't have the time to run and manage an actual clinic per se. So I'd be looking for more scale and bring people on to do more of this whole concierge type model.

I'm within my niches.

Danny: [00:40:53] Yeah. I, I just, you know, I'm a massive fan of the, a business within a business to start within particular. I mean, I think that. When, when you look at like convenience, right? People will pay for that for sure. And you know, people that I've worked with that, that have started a mobile practice, like driving and you know, you're, you're, you're sitting in your car lot, you're getting your stuff out.

You're going to somebody's house. The environment is not; your situation is somebody else's environment. Like there's something, a lot to be said for that. Like when somebody comes into mine. The facility is my world. Like, this is what, this is where I work. You're coming into my space versus when I go to someone's house as their space.

And, you know, the way that you approach things is slightly different, but the time difference, you know, and honestly, the cost, is so low and practices like that, that I just think it's such an excellent way to get started. And if you don't want to scale, you don't necessarily need to go past just.

Justice, that single office, or you could have two locations to spread yourself out, and you can scale that way and still keep your overhead low. Keep your business lean. I think that you know, anybody listening to this, like the fewer people that you have, the more efficient you can run your business.

And it depends on what we're trying to do. But like the less complex you make, it just honestly the more comfortable life is. And then you have to figure out. How much money do you want to want to make? Because once you hit that number, it's probably less than you think to, but once you hit that number.

Things are just, and you can only afford marginally nicer shit. Like you can have a slightly nicer car. You can live in a margin, nicer place. You go to Mars and nicer vacation, but it doesn't correlate to the quality of life and the things that you, you know, you value. So you know, for, for you and anybody listening to this, I think that model, I'm a huge proponent of it, is if you can set you, you know.

Set up your business within it as someone else's business. It's like having a Chick-fil-A Ana mall if you have your target audience right there. Like what a better place than a gymnastics facility for somebody good with gymnast or a dancer, soda. People that are good with dancers to start with that and you working with the youth and then all of a sudden the parents started picking your brain about other things are going on with them and next thing you know, you have this original referral source from the same family.

It's like, it makes so much sense when you look at it that perspective, but I think for a lot of people, they view the old model of. Oh, I've got to, I've got to put $100,000 into a build-out, and I've gotta, you know, whatever. It has to look like this fantastic facility. It's just not true. To help people, to impact people, and to have a profitable business.

You do not need to do that, in fact. You're much better off if you don't because you're not taking on all that new kind of loan, stress, and all other things associated with. So, okay, 12 months from now, when we, we followed back up, you better have scaled to another person. Otherwise, everybody in the PT entrepreneur community is going to harass you.

They're going to give you a hard, hard time. So,

Duane: [00:43:30] a little driven. So,

Danny: [00:43:32] yeah. Yeah. You are. You are. I know that's such a. It's a good thing to know, right? We gotta you have to know what drives you, right? Like for you? Yeah. You just need to put up. I don't know, like a picture of somebody with, with a, their faces like blackout and a question mark, but it's like next PT, you know, once I hit that, then you know, you accomplished the goal and, and buy yourself a trophy or something like that so you can reward yourself.

But, this has been a fun conversation, man. If, if people are interested in kind of finding out a little bit more about spark and what you're doing, on social media or website and all that stuff, where can they work in, they kind of find out a little bit more about your practice or connect with you on a, on social media.

Duane: [00:44:06]

Yeah. So you can find all the information definitely on the website.      sparkyourtraining.com. And then all of my social media handles, I'm pretty active on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube as well. It is just, and they're all at Spark Your Training. You can find me there, send me a DM, send me a personal message, checkouts, subscribe to the YouTube channel to try to, you know, build that up.

And that's been a pretty interesting platform to help a lot of patients too, with, and then obviously it helps, you know, your searchability on Google. I'm an SEO and that kind of thing. So, that's been something that I've been liking.

Danny: [00:44:43]  Cool. Well, we'll make sure we link all that stuff up, guys.

Make sure you reach out, especially if you're interested in the dance and the gymnastics, you know, a niche, like what a great resource. And, and, and this just goes to show, you know, the niches that, that are out there. There are lots of them. There are lots of different ways to help people. And whenever you.

Specialize in a particular area. It's fun for you. You get to work with the people you enjoy working with, you get the most energy from, and it's also easier on your business to get people to commit to. Yeah, I want to work with a specialist because this is who they work with, and this is who I am. And it's a much, much more comfortable conversation.

So I'm doing, thanks so much for your time today. This is awesome. I'm glad we got a chance to connect. Talk about your business a little bit, and, maybe if from a CSM next time we'll hit a hit, a workout up to get together again.

Duane: [00:45:26] Absolutely. I'm always down for that. Danny, this has been awesome.

Thank you so much for having me on and truly an honor.

Danny: [00:45:32] Cool man. Absolutely. No, no. I, I appreciate, I love the fact that I can have listeners on here and, and I love what you're doing. I'm excited for people to learn about it, and guys, as always, thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time.