E442 | Andrew Millet Interview

 

Today, Andrew Millet joins me to discuss what has led to his success in scaling a cash-based practice within a gym. He is the owner of Move Strong Physical Therapy in Hudson, MA. There are many valuable lessons within on scaling a cash-based practice as well as starting a cash based physical therapy practice discussed in this episode. Enjoy!!

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] So I was having a conversation with one of our staff members about documentation and he had come over from a in-network practice that he was working at and he was talking about just how long it would take him to document and click through and the workflow and how, just how time consuming it was and how much easier it's been with the software that we use, which is PT everywhere.

And I know for us, we're very aware. Sort of time leaks within our staff and our own schedules. And it's just one of the worst things you can do is just waste time on things when you could be doing them more efficiently. One thing for us is we have to document. It's something we need to do and you need to do it as efficiently as you possibly can because that's where you're gonna save a lot of your time.

We were seeing our staff members save upwards of an hour a day as far as cleaning up his documentation, making it more efficient. What if you got an hour of your day back just from documentation? What if all of your staff did the same thing? Highly recommend you take a look at PT everywhere.

It's been a huge time saver for us and really has made a big difference in our efficiency of our practice. You can check 'em [email protected]. I think you're gonna really like what they have. [00:01:00] So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matte, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's going on, doc Danny here. We're the PT Entrepreneur podcast and Facebook group. We got Andrew Millett of Move Strong Physical Therapy up in Hudson, mass. It was just up that way. We were talking about it. It had a cool little trip to Acadia National Park in Boston. We gotta see, the Freedom Trail and all the, the shit that we did back in the revolutionary era, which is really cool.

But that's a cool town, man. I really I really enjoyed my time. Are you from there originally?

Andrew: I grew up just about 30 minutes west. Actually not far [00:02:00] from where my facility is. Never actually lived in the city limits. Had a semi accent for a period in my life. Yeah. But no it's always a fun city to go to, and even if you're from here and it's, I've actually never been on the Freedom Trail, so you really?

You're better than me,

Danny: it is. It, is that like a touristy thing to do? Is that just you're not from here, you do it,

Andrew: it's like elementary, middle school field trip and you're not from here type of thing. Yeah, there's a lot of definitely tourist things to do. But I know I'm less of lesser of a Bostonian,

Danny: I'll tell you, man, I'll tell you what was interesting was to honestly think about just like the duration of time that some of those things took, right? Because like for them, right? They decide, okay We're not, we don't want to follow these taxes anymore. We sub, submit our declaration of, independence from you guys and then they have to wait months cause that she has to get on a boat to go over to another country.

They get all pissed off, write their own letter, and then come back with a bunch of other people. And it's not like this happened, quickly. So you're just waiting. Imagine that. Imagine be like, oh shit, we just sent [00:03:00] a letter that's gonna piss off the most powerful country in the world, and now we gotta wait.

And you're Paul Revere and you're like, I'm vigilant as fucking, I'm gonna have one lantern for this and two for this. And it's just a crazy thing to think that is like just how it went. And these are just random ass people, right? They just got riled up about something and they started something crazy.

I

Andrew: never realized that. Looking back now, it all makes sense, but like I never realized that until you put it in perspective. Like now, it'd just be like a slide into a DM or a tweet and be like, we're we're declaring our independence piece.

Danny: Oh, totally. Yeah. That's exactly what it was. And they, they would just sit around and argue about stuff and then, yeah.

Then obviously there's much more. I feel like this is like an episode of Drunk History in comparison to what it should actually be and some actual historians talking about, this is just my, this is my recollection of what I was told while I was there. But I'll tell you what else was really cool, and I totally recommend this.

If you guys are ever up this way, go to Salem, Massachusetts in October. That place is insane, man. And when we got there, we didn't know there was [00:04:00] a parade that day. It was some big ass parade and there are so many people dressed up. That place was packed, like it was wild. And to learn about like the witch trials and like what actually happened there.

It's nuts, man. It's really creepy.

Andrew: The, yeah. Halloween, like October-ish time in Salem. It's like they're Christmas. Like they, they go all.

Danny: Totally. They totally do. So it was cool. We had a fun little family trip. Enough of our family trip, we're gonna dig into what Andrew's been up to and a really cool unique business model.

We see a lot of people at start practices inside gyms, and then it's a stepping stone for them to then move to a standalone location. Andrew's in a unique facility. It's Cressey's Eric Cressey's facility. So is it a Cressie performance center? Is that what it's

Andrew: called? It used to be Cressie Performance and they rebranded it a few years back to k Cressey's Sports

Danny: Performance, which it is now.

Okay. So Cressie Sports Performance. So super well known training center, [00:05:00] especially in the baseball niche. So a unique opportunity to be in a, an area where there's a lot of flow of professional high level athletes and. Collaboration with really high level coaches so you know what Andrew's been able to do is actually.

Grow, to multiple providers within the gym and be able to actually grow his business without having to step out and get his own standalone space. Tell me this man, we'll dig into, a little bit of what you're doing and what's going on, but I'm interested in how you develop the relationship to begin with with Eric Cressey and his group and what that looked like, as well as like, how long did that take?

Because I always find it funny, people are like, oh, of course, cuz he knows this guy. It's no. What's the backstory? Like how long did that take?

Andrew: First off, thank you for having me. I appreciate coming on, even though it's my second ti second time around the podcast, so I appreciate it.

Danny: Put that belt up real quick.

Let everybody see that belt. You're wearing it. We, he carries this around with him. Every patient gets bopped in the head with this when he's doing a he's doing a manipulation in their neck and

Andrew: just when you don't, if you don't do your exercise, you get smacked to the. So that's the

Danny: belt, but [00:06:00] just give some context.

That's the belt for winning our M V MVP award, which is the most progress made in a six month period. Andrew won that. What year was that?

Andrew: That was 2019. So I remember sitting in Dallas in April of 19 at my first ever mastermind event. And saw that Clay won it and I'm like, I'm winning that fucking belt.

You get that belt and the Latinx six months was a blur because it was like crazy hours and days, but it was wor it was all worth it.

Danny: Yeah, no, congratulations on that. That's a hard, that's a difficult thing to do. Cause there's a lot of people that are trying really hard to get that sucker. So you got one handful of other people do.

But yeah man I'm interested what did that look like? How did the relationship develop and how long did

Andrew: it take? Yeah, no, that's, I like talking about this stuff cuz it allows me to reflect. It, it really goes all the way back to college, like my junior year. I got, or I not assigned, but I chose to live with one of my junior year roommate who I played baseball with.

And[00:07:00] the importance of that is because a few years later, when I moved home, cause I grew up about 15, 20 minutes from the gym and it wasn't open when I was in high school and beginning at college, my, my junior year college roommate says, oh, you're like 15 to 20 minutes from crus. You should go train.

And I was like, okay. And I was like, five months coming off of A C L reconstruction and I was like, all right I'll call up, see what they're all about. So I showed up in October of 2008 and before that, I think it was either a Saturday or a Monday or whatever, but I came by and just saw the facility on this place is electric, this is awesome.

So just wanted to stay in shape and, get stronger. No real like athletic aspirations after that. So started training there in here in 2008 and I think over a two year window, like Eric was like, oh, do you wanna come in and do you know, PT on a Saturday? Just small little thing.

And being 25, 24, 25 at the time, I'm [00:08:00] like, I'm more worried about where I'm going out on Saturday night than right than starting a business. Just brushed it off and then it was nine years after, after starting here at C S P and they had moved multiple locations inside of the complex we're in now.

And I was up here on a, it was Erica just got back from Florida. It was April of 2017. And he is Hey, we wanna do PT in here, we want you. I was like, when can I start? So gave my notice in June of 17 at my, outpatient ortho clinic. Left in July, started doing home health five days a week to supplement my.

And then over a 10 month period, I went from one day a week to quitting my full-time job and being here by myself or being here full-time and creating a business that I've hired admins, I've hired staff PTs and where we've done well I'm really, it's great to see how far we've come.

Danny: Yeah.

And to put that in perspective. So you're talking. [00:09:00] 10 year history basically before you opened your practice within the facility. It really just started out with, you just wanted to train, right? You're looking for a place to train. And I think in a lot of ways it's like, Hey, like these people seem legit.

Like I wanna I wanna be a part of that. I wanna stay in shape. You're right, there's a certain energy in some of these facilities you go into and you're something's different here. There's something different going on and it's hard to put your, to put your finger on.

But what would you say, and for the people that don't know who Eric Cresty is, go check out his stuff. Especially if you work with anybody that's like an overhead athlete. I think he has really solid stuff. And on the performance side in particular. But what would you say that the difference is of what do they do that's special, like that really makes the facility kinda stand?

Andrew: Obviously they have a specific niche in baseball and they train other athletes too, so it's not just like baseball. That's a good amount. But like they have field hockey, soccer, lacrosse, there's all these different types of athletes that come through here, but baseball is their niche.

I think early on, I've talked to Pete and Eric Pete at Eric's business partner about this at length, is that they, there was no one working with [00:10:00] that population back in 2007. No one, yeah, a physical, the, or a baseball player might have gone to PT for, a shoulder injury, but no one really understood the demand specific to the throwing athletes.

They were really filling a need in the marketplace of, all right, this is a specific population that needs to be, catered to and addressed. It's not just like a typical shoulder pain athlete. So it was, that was how it all started and then, meeting with local orthopedic surgeons and working with the health and wellness field of Hey, this is how you need to approach an overhead athlete due to the specific demands that are placed upon them.

So I think if you were able to come into the facility, you'd see people, lifting weights and deadlifting and squatting and lunging and stuff. You would see in a typical gym. The assessment and also the programming is specific towards the demands of the baseball player and what their body needs to be able to do, especially rotationally and for pitchers.

So that's really where they've, been able to work with the baseball population.

Danny: Yeah, I think they do a really good [00:11:00] job of dominating a niche. Like they're, there's probably a few people that are even trying to do like baseball. Anywhere around them. It just probably would be very difficult to do.

And for you being in this facility there's obviously pros and cons with working inside, someone else's business, but it's a fairly unique setup. What would you say the pros and cons are of, having your office, your business inside a performance, center

Andrew: there's definitely a lot of pros and I would say like the opportunity to work, alongside amazing strength conditioning coaches like. To be completely honest, like I've learned so much from the staff here and Eric has surrounded, has built a team around him that is, is amazing.

Like obviously his name is on the business, he is hired and brought on amazing strength conditioning coaches that, when he's in Florida or he is not here, like he. A group of a team that, continues to provide great quality service. And that's a great [00:12:00] lesson I've learned about scaling my own business of like, all right, surround your people.

Surround yourself with really smart people that. Can help out more people. You can't just see everybody like grow and scale, so you can help as many people as possible. So I just hope I provide them with enough, I don't wanna say help, but more value than, they've given me so much to, help shape my career.

Being around Pete and Eric, like Pizza's is his business partner and he's here full-time. And just from a business side of things, a guy has an MBA from Babson and. He's not a typical landlord. Like I can go into his office and just ask a business question that, a landlord shouldn't, it would normally be just transactional.

Here's the check. Have a nice day. But it's if if I'm successful, they're successful and vice versa. So that if, like I walk in and I have a question or we're always asking each other, what are you reading? And. We're both very similar. We both own businesses. We both have wives and kids like, so we're on a similar level in our lives.

So that it's a great relationship there where we can be professional colleagues and have [00:13:00] a more unique conversation. Being inside of a space like this, like another pro is like we get to work with just awesome people. Like people that you know are, like we talk about in the group of people that want to get better and want to.

Be better with health and wellness and really have a bigger goal in mind versus just, I just wanna get outta pain and seeing how well people do. I'm grateful every day to, to be in a position where like I can work with awesome individuals and I was telling my new hire Connor this, and we have great people like, and I firmly believe that not just our team and the strength and Additioning staff here, but also the people we get to work with plus like really out on a training floor, and seeing.

Being able to utilize all we need to from a strength conditioning perspective, but also being around these athletes, even if we're not working with them. Like particularly just like having that clubhouse camaraderie and like being around the athletes all different times of the day. And it's great and I'm listen to loud good music, like just, it's not like a typical office where like it's quiet, it's super quiet.

Like that. So it's there's a lot of like pluses to being [00:14:00] here. And again I remind myself not to take it for granted because I've been here quite a while. It's just, I'm grateful for this opportunity to be here and be around a great team. Yeah. Like I, even we haven't even looked into the positive ramifications of an athlete rehabbing on the table and being around other athletes who are training and.

Lifting and runnings. It's just the positive psychological impact that, that, that has. I wrote a blog, first post for Pete a while ago about that of three reasons we're in the chaos on the training floor. And it's just a lot of great things going

Danny: on. I think. That's a great point, man.

A couple things you brought up, number one the value of the population that we get to work with is just like one of the best parts. And I think that people, you almost have to like, feel or put yourself in a setting. Where you're working in a pop with a population that, if it's a high percentage of work comp or personal injuries where maybe they don't want to get better.

And this is something that frustrated me a lot in the army with people that were on profiles and going through [00:15:00] medical board processes. They're not really, they're incentivized to not get better, and so that, that can be very frustrating. You never really have to second guess that with the population you work with.

So it's great cuz they're. Give you a lot of effort. Which I think for most of us is it's, that's just all we really want is to make sure that like what we're doing, is it working because, or is not working cuz we're not doing the right thing, or it's not working because you don't want it to work.

And so like that, you take that outta the equation. But I think the other thing you said is like the environment super healthy, right? I remember, Brandon, so Brandon my, my brother-in-law, he played football at. He tore his a c l D during a game against Iowa. And so he was rehabbing all by himself in most cases isolated from the team.

It was a really difficult, thing to do to a young athlete. Take them away from all of that. Just put 'em in a training room with a bunch of people that they don't know. And it's cool that the environment that you're in it's like, again, it's still like that positive locker room environment.

And that's probably huge for them from a mental standpoint as they're going through like a. Challenging, injuries, so I'm sure you guys, see that quite a bit as well. Is that something that they like, talk [00:16:00] about or is that like they're intentionally trying to work on that? I'm interested Is or how much of that just happens because of, the environment they've created?

Andrew: I would say the latter. It's not, it's by default in that if I, we have clients on the table, like we're still gonna get up and go out in the gym and do stuff. If you're in ACL or you get a lot, you're on crutches and a leg brace or whatever. I had a girl who had a, who had two foot surgeries and I got her up and like we're doing like single leg squats on a, to a bench on her, her non-involved side.

And then got her on the rower using her non-involved side to get a workout in and. It's, I think it just happens organically that like, all right, you're not gonna be stuck in this little area. We're gonna get off the table, we're gonna go do some stuff. And it really empowers them like, Hey, listen, like I, there is a lot I can do, not what I can't do.

And it's so exciting when you can see the look on the person's face, like when they feel like there's hope.

Danny: Sure. No, that's cool man. Tell me a little bit about the pro-athlete side of things. This is something that we definitely [00:17:00] get a lot of questions with. Some pro-athletes come people's way and it's not that many of 'em, and they're like, man, is it, should I take work comp?

And I think that's for a lot of people, they may not even realize that, if they're hurt the team has work comp insurance. Some, in some cases they pay out of pocket depending on the athlete. But can you explain that process a little bit with the professional athletes, at least when it comes to baseball with what you guys are.

Andrew: Yeah, that, that's been a great, opportunity for me to be inside this facility. I've had, got to work with the guy, professional athletes in the nfl, nhl, mlb and it's just, it's been great to be here cuz I, I don't, probably would've never had that opportunity. So it's been really great to have that ability to do that.

And I think what a lot of people. Think it's just oh, they're just playing a sport. I'm like, no, this is their livelihood. This is how they pay their bills. And a lot of people think, oh, they get paid so much money. And I'm like, some people do, but some people make league minimum and. That's, they're gonna make, do the best that they can in a finite amount of time because eventually the career will be over.

So it's [00:18:00] having the opportunity to help an athlete come back from an injury, especially for that and be able to help them and provide their, for them, for their family is, it's been great to have and. It's, we can specifically work on the demands of what their sport entails to the work comp side of things.

Yeah, you said it best, like most teams have a work comp policy so that the client has been hurt, on, on the field of play. So some of those teams will have, the work comp policy, cover it. It. It really depends. Like it's, you get in the weeds when you talk about it, of you have to like, negotiate with the work comp company and the rates and that type of stuff.

Before we should have been charging more, like we've already, we've talked about many times, but I looked at it as just a cool opportunity to, be able to work with this population. So I was okay with the few of them that weren't at our full. Due to the work comp dictating that, but every year we, we connect with the work comp insurance company and negotiate a fair market rate so that, it is worth our while.

But at the end of the day, [00:19:00] I just, I looked at it as a cool opportunity and if I said no I don't know, what would've happened? If I did,

Danny: yeah. Especially I would assume with the volume side of like post-ops, it it's something that we have not gone in network with any in work comp.

We don't see that high of a volume of athletes. If we do, they typically are coming to us cuz they don't want to go through work comp, like they're working on something that maybe they're up to a contractor or something like that. It's just, it's an interesting. Team dynamic that I never really knew.

Andrew: It's, anyone who's not working in that environment may have a diff difficult time understanding because some guys will come just see us for HandsOn work and they want to pay themselves and Right. We, they don't want the team to know, because this is a whole other conversation of how, like some teams will see that as a li.

It's no, they're being proactive and taking care of themselves. So it's, I think it's an investment when they do that stuff. So we have a decent amount of guys that we work with in that regard. And I have to [00:20:00] remember too, like we don't have a ton of these cases where this is only typically during the off-season, September, October to like January or February.

And it's, yeah, some guys just, yeah, I'm gonna, I'll take care of this myself. Let's just work together. You.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it is interesting. We had a, we had an athlete, an n f NFL guy that was like in a contract year and he wanted nothing to do with any of their team like medical staff and so it was and I always thought that was interesting cuz he was like, no, I don't like, they work for the team.

I want, I won't want them to know what I'm working on. Like it's, and it's just, it's funny when you look at it because it is a business, right? It's completely, it's just a business a team wants. The best player for the least amount of money they can. The player wants to get as much money as they.

And their bodies, their vehicle to, make an income. So it's an interesting environment with baseball in particular. What are you guys seeing as far as the business kind of model works, right? If you have an athlete, and this is a niche that I think is, you're seeing a lot more people move towards with the overhead athlete, especially baseball is, starting to become a lot more [00:21:00] popular.

But what are you working on primarily? What are you seeing the most of as far as injuries go? What do you think about ongoing kind of care options that exist for continuity offerings for people that are working, within that niche of

Andrew: baseball? Yeah, you're gonna see a majority of shoulder elbow that's like the big stuff and not necessarily, you'll have some post-ops due to the demands of the sport and know, structure's just breaking down and needing surgical intervention and intervention.

But, a lot of guys, oh, my shoulders bothering me, my elbow, my forearm. Those are the big things. You'll definitely get like the low backs and the, the hip and that type of stuff. But those are the two biggest joints that you're gonna. And I think what we've always done is try to empower the athlete to take care of themselves because when an athlete is in season with their team, as you just stated, like it, they have to be careful with their asks.

Like they have to be careful like going to the treatment room, which is. It's a shame that this is how the model is, but they'd [00:22:00] be careful of Hey, I wanna go in and get soft tissue work, or I need some get this or that. Cuz some organizations will say, oh, we're gonna flag you if you come in so many times.

And it's so what? I was just like, all right, let's just teach them how to take care of themselves. Whether it be, self soft tissue work with a lacrosse ball or hyper volt or a theone and giving them a warmup program so that they can do to help keep themselves in the best possible shape.

And also checking in with them during the season. Hey, how things going? How you feeling? What do you need? That way when they come in for the off season we can really hit the ground running and the ship. And it's an interesting thing in the physical therapy world.

Oh, you shouldn't have to dry needle someone's LA to get them to feel better, or this or that. They should be able to take care of themselves a hundred percent. And my argument with that is, is that these athletes are beating the, beating themselves up every time they throw or hit that they're gonna, need consistent treatment because the amount of, I don't wanna say trauma, for lack of a better word, they're placing on their body needs to be managed so, using a lacrosse [00:23:00] ball or a percussion gun, can only get you so far.

So I think it's teaching them how to take care of themselves, but also Hey, listen, this is important. To your point about the continuity is well guys that'll come in once a week and maybe ramp up as they start throwing. Or all right, I wanna come see you once a month just to stay on top of stuff.

And they re they really value that we can try to help keep them out there and keep 'em.

Danny: Yeah, you bring up a great point too of it's like the traditional world and this world, they're they, they're not really the same in terms of like how you provide care. I had a really good conversation with Toko Winn about this, who, he runs institute athlete regeneration and he works with a ton of baseball players as well.

And you know what he brought up, what I thought was interesting was like the soft tissue side is one thing, but the. The confidence side mentally is the other side that's really valuable that a lot of these players continually wanna work with him on, is because, if they feel confident that, this [00:24:00] person, is working on their arm or whatever it might be, and that they say you're good to go.

Just a little bit of soreness, whatever it is, and they're constantly making that as. They feel a lot better going into whatever sporting event they're gonna go into. And what he said was like, that's like when he gets called in to do like on-site consulting, this, just, where they're flying him in or something like that.

He. Nine times outta 10. A lot of it is it's not like they haven't heard whatever before. They want to have a guy's gonna come in and be able to like, explain to them, have trust with them that they're that they can do whatever you know, they need to do on the field or they, that he shouldn't, and then for them to be able to understand that and communicate that. I think, for you, the ongoing stuff I think is great from a business side, but also it's I don't know why there's this dirty word of maintenance with our profession. It's I. If people want that and they feel better with it and there's value associated with it, it's, I don't know what it is.

It's just not the insurance model typically for for what people typically practice it,

Andrew: it's, you hit, yeah, you hit the nail right in the head. It's if, and I didn't really think about the mental side of it. I always do, but that in particular of if [00:25:00] the athlete has confidence to go out there and throw a bullpen and they feel good and they feel pain free.

That's sometimes even better because they may not move the best, but they can go out and perform and feel confident and provide, for their team and what they need to be able to do. That's, it's huge. And I was talking with one of my guys about this and I'm like, oh, I, you should just be able to take care of yourself after bullpen.

I was saying this sarcastically. Oh, after bullpen, like I shouldn't have to, dry needle, you and he. Yeah. That's not gonna work. So it's, especially when they feel better and they move better, and it's like their arm or their elbow or whatever the joint is, just it's really important for them and it's I appreciate the opportunity to be able to help

Danny: them with that.

Yeah. And it's also financially worth it in a lot of ways. Imagine squeezing out just one more year of playing professional sport. That's massive in terms of, cuz it's not a long shelf life for these guys. Maybe baseball is a little bit longer than football, obviously, or something that's a little more if you're an NFL running back like you got a short, a [00:26:00] shelf life versus, maybe a relief pitcher in comparison.

But but even still it's short, right? And then from there, like a lot of what they're able. Playing these sports, it's not like that goes into their fifties or whatever. An extra year for them can be a huge difference maker in terms of like how much they're actually able to make before they move on to whatever they're gonna do, after that.

One thing that I did want to bring up with you, cause I think a lot of people struggle with this, and I would assume that you probably. Did or have more so because of the location, but when you scale past yourself when you brought your first provider on and really the other providers that you have, like how difficult was that transition from everybody, Hey, you gotta go see Andrew.

Of oh, I got you gotta go see my guy. If Eric's oh, go see my guy Andrew. And you're like, now you gotta see Johnny or whatever, the person's name is that you, you brought on, what was that transition like to move past you being the man to like your company being, what people are moving towards working with.

Andrew: It's, I think you've mentioned it before in other podcasts it's sometimes more [00:27:00] challenging than starting a business, right? It's And you can get two types of people. You can have the egotistical one who just wants to see everybody and burn everything else down around them. Or you have to just, you have things of confidence that you bring on good people that can compliment what you do and are better than you.

My two colleagues are now Julie and Connor. Like they, I can confidently say they're better than me, otherwise I wouldn't have brought them on and. When people, group introduced me on a text or like an email like, Hey, see my brother or my colleague or whatever, listen I appreciate that and I know so and so told you to see, told you to see me, but you gotta go see my colleague.

They're that much better. I would see them for my shoulder or my Nate. And I think having that, the confidence and. The being honest with people and the humility of it, of saying, go see my colleague I have good people around me. I think people just want that trust that Hey, you're gonna put them in the right direction.

And I [00:28:00] wanna be able to help as many people as possible. That doesn't necessarily mean I have to treat them like we can hire a great team and bring on great people to help as many people as possible. So it's, it was definitely a challenge. But like we've made sure to hire really solid people first.

Like hire, as I've learned from Pete, hire for fit. Because you can train somebody up clinically, but you can't train someone not to be an asshole. So you can so we've, hi. We have a great team around me and I've the utmost confidence. So it's, that was, it was a challenge, but I think we've we've done well with it.

Danny: I think it's one of the harder Yeah. Transitions just for people. In general, right? Cuz they, they work so hard to build their rela or their reputation up. And then, once they have, then they have to start to slide people over to other practitioners. And there can be some resistance associated with that, with certain patients that are, that just don't want to do it.

And it's the way that maybe your referral sources are teeing them up for you in a lot of ways to begin [00:29:00] with. But for where you're at now, right? You're. You're leading this group, right? So you're not treating everybody, you're not necessarily quite as involved in the clinical side.

What have you found has been like the kinda most difficult part of this transition now, which is really moving into leading the group that you have and growing the business to, to where you want it to be ultimately?

Andrew: Yeah that's a great question and I think isn't touched upon a lot, in companies and when you're leading a.

But you said it best. It's like leading the team. Like I was a former captain for high school sports, so I have a little bit of experience and I've worked in management before, but, learning how to communicate which can carry over to your wife, your kids, your and your team, or your business that you need to like have that and you taught me this, that one-on-one time.

Like I have one-on-one meetings with my team every week. Unless someone's on vacation, it's non-negotiable. Like we meet for 45 straight minutes, one-on-one FaceTime to show them. I still give a shit and [00:30:00] I'm there to listen to any of their personal professional concerns. Anything they have questions about, like it's their time to use how they will.

And I've really been focused on the psychology of like listening and communication and really trying to like, how I talk to them, not necessarily what I talk. And I've read a lot of great books about this and I'm still learning. But it just shows like the employee, that the employer still cares and it's not just a transactional relationship.

That's been the hardest part. And just just really dialing that in and really getting focused

Danny: on it. Yeah, I think that, The communication side is huge, right? Because in, in your case, or really anybody it's not necessarily what you're talking about. Oftentimes, it's how you deliver it.

We did we took our team through, it's called the Berkman Assessment. It's actually like one of our patients was this serial tech entrepreneur, and he's every company I started, we go through this Berkman assessment, right? Which is really in depth [00:31:00] communication assessment of your entire staff.

And we did like a facilitation day where we brought these two guys in and they went through everybody's profiles for I guess what, cause they came in twice. So two, two separate days over about a month in. And what it is basically it's how you communicate, but how you want to be communicated to is what it looks at.

And it can be vastly different, right? For me, like I'm pretty direct with people. But I also, I'm cool if you're direct with me, but other people, they might be, they might communicate and be direct with somebody, but that's not how they like to be communicated. With, and it's, they had us basically stand on this little spectrum they created for us.

And so it'd be like, you're like on one end or the other. And some people were in the middle, but it was interesting, they had us like move around this and stand where we were at on these different variables. And we were like very different in a lot of ways. And it was really helpful to learn that even though.

It's not like we look at the Berkman assessment before we talk to anybody, although we probably should. But understanding that like [00:32:00] people, just that the way you communicate is not necessarily the way that people want to be talked to or engaged with, and like listening to them and asking 'em questions and that's, it.

Just, it's time intensive. It takes time, right? So I think at scale, this is why you see it's so difficult when you have, imagine having. Eight, eight clinicians, you can't do all that, right? So then you have to train somebody else to take over that role and then you're doing that with them and then it disseminates down.

So I, I think it's a challenge, man, for everybody. And it sounds like you're doing a really good job of initially like getting to con continue that one-on-one

Andrew: contact. Thank you. Yeah. I'm doing my best with it. It definitely evolves over time and. I, one thing I've, it is definitely the words you use as you've talked about before, tonality and body language and all those things.

And I think at the end of the day too, show that you care, but also If you want someone to do something, you don't just tell 'em to do it. Show it how it'll benefit them and their goals and like what they want to accomplish. If you just say, oh, I want you to do this cause it's gonna make more money, that's not really gonna motivate them.

Hey listen, [00:33:00] it would be great if you did this because it's gonna help you get that. Specific caseload that you want to treat. Cause I know how much that important is important and it's valuable to you. So it's, I'm definitely like continuing to evolve and get better at that. But that's been hugely important, especially having an admin, billing manager and two staff PTs.

Danny: Yeah. You said you read a couple books recently and they were helpful. What books were you reading? Were you, do you have any recommendations on the leadership side?

Andrew: Jocko Welling just wrote leadership Strategy and Tactics. It was, I think, the third book from Dichotomy of Leadership and extreme Ownership.

That was really good. It just talked about how do you speak to your superiors, how do you speak to people on your playing field and how do you speak to maybe like employees, if you're the employer. And that was really helpful. And it's, I'm trying to think I'm drawing a blank on the other ones right now, but

Danny: it's a good one though.

I like his stuff a lot. I think that his stuff is a little more, obviously more militaristic. And for some people that's, I, that resonates a lot with them and for others, maybe it's not quite as good of a fit as far as like a communication, leadership book goes.

But I think [00:34:00] that's the biggest thing that I've took that I've found or that I've taken away from my time in particular in the Army, was there's leaders that you like in that environment. People don't have a choice. They have to listen to you. That's the thing, like we we have civilian for-profit businesses.

People could literally just be like, I'm done with this, I'm leaving. You can't just do that in the Army or the Air Force or whatever. Like in the military, you can't do that. So there's a lot of dicks, there's a lot of assholes that are just like, They know that. And so like their approach is like very hard top down, do what I say, like that's it.

And and in some cases maybe that's exactly what they need to do. My favorite leaders were always the ones that just gave a shit about people. Like they were, they just were aware of what was going on. They wanted to make sure their people were taken care of. And what they got, what I noticed was they got people that wanted to work with them.

Without being forced to do and I honestly believe would go much further, than somebody that like, was fearful of what was gonna happen to them versus not wanting to let somebody down cause you [00:35:00] respect them. So I think that's like the biggest difference that I've found, which is gaining respect from people is difficult.

It's time intensive and it you can't fake it. You really have to develop those relat.

Andrew: I don't see as many clients as my staff does, but I am exhausted, like at the end of the day because Sure. It's not just like the one-on-one or the, treating clients. It's, it takes a lot of mental bandwidth to, to do that.

And if it was easy, everybody would do it, and not everybody does. So it's, but I do find it's really valuable. I've, I had one of my employees resigned recently. Just for different reasons. And he even says you give a shit. Like you really care. And I was like, oh, I do.

Cause I wanna have a good team around me. Like I want people to enjoy coming in and have this be, a space that they enjoy coming. Not just have the Sunday scaries or the Monday morning like, oh geez, like I gotta go to work. So it's, I'm really like ever since the Dallas event, and I was like this before, but I'm really.

I wanna dive deep on the culture stuff and like mission, [00:36:00] vision, values, cuz like I was listening to a podcast where it's like a salary will bring people to you. Culture will keep them here. So it's, they may not make as much as like they could somewhere else, like after working for you, but what's gonna keep them here?

Danny: Well said, man. I completely agree with that. People that take less money to take a job because they like the culture, I've been I've, I was watching this. Pixar, like mini-series on inside. I dunno if you've seen this on Disney Plus, but it's it's in, it's fascinating, right?

We watch everything on Disney Plus, but there's, I think it's like a 12 part series where they follow like the pastry chef of Pixar around, they follow like the person that's doing like character development, graphic design, and all these things. And what's so interesting is I think when you find really good companies, there's a culture that exists that.

Independent of the benefits, independent of the salary. It's it's a community. It's a it's a place where people feel like they're a part of something. Like I feel like everybody in that documentary, they're like really [00:37:00] proud, to say that they work there or that they do this thing there, or whatever it might be.

And it's really interesting organization. I think we can take, little pieces of that. Obviously we're not huge like a Pixar is or whatever, but if people are like, proud to say they. At the company that you're at. That's huge. It goes a long way. And money in a lot of ways is it's important, but after a certain amount it's for people to be miserable to make, slightly more.

I I, most people I don't think will take that trade off unless they had to.

Andrew: And I can't take all the credit for this. I feel like csp, like we have a great team here and I talk A one business place, like there's three, three businesses inside of csp, me my business, massage service, and then csp.

And I just I don't feel like we're like on a, in a silo. Like I feel like part of a big team and we all joke and have a good time. And I feel like the culture that CSP is curated has bled into our business and it's really helped. And it's, you wanna be a part of something bigger and have it in the team that we have here, we just, everyone gels really well together and [00:38:00] it's.

Danny: Yeah. That's cool. If people wanna learn more about what you got going on where can they find out more? Where can they, maybe touch basely, reach out if they if they want to connect you with somebody or find out next time you're hiring so they can get a cool job at a cool place.

Andrew: Yeah, we're al we're always looking to expand and, continue to help as many people. So if you just go on, move Strong physical therapy, our Instagram. I still actually look at the Instagram, so it's not someone else. Julie does help me run it, but it's, I still respond to the dms. My email, Andrew Mill PT gmail.

Yeah, we're always just looking to grow and, expand and help as many athletes and clients as possible.

Danny: Cool. Man I appreciate your time, appreciate you sharing a little bit about the model you have. It's, unique. You've done a great job with it and I hope a lot people'll learn.

Thank you. From this. Yeah man, I appreciate your time. I know you wolfed down lunch there as fast as you could. And I appreciate you taking that salad down in a minute. That was impressive.

Andrew: Salad.

Danny: I'm checking on it. Oh, yeah. Even more impressive. You had a hell, a set of jaws on you there, but all right guys, thanks so much for listening.

As always, [00:39:00] we'll catch you next week.

Hey, real quick before you go, I just wanna say thank you so much for listening to this podcast, and I would love it if you got involved in the conversation. So this is a one way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to get you into the group that we have formed on Facebook, our PT entrepreneurs face.

Book group has about 4,000 clinicians in there that are literally changing the face of our profession. I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connected with other clinicians all over the country. I do live trainings in there with Eve Gigi every single week, and we share resources that we don't share anywhere else outside that group.

So if you're serious about being a PT entrepreneur, a clinical rainmaker, head to that group. Get signed up. Go to facebook.com/groups/ptentrepreneur, or go to Facebook and just search for PT Entrepreneur. And we're gonna be the only group that pops up under that.